Pew Pew Pew

[Ivory]

Originally Posted by koros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What was your real dps? I have a ranger with maxed archery and it was never that impressive.

25-40 it seemed on most of the fights without trueshot. Depended a lot on how much I cast that fight (I was more lazy with the casting since I was trying to save mana to help heal). With trueshot I was at 50-55dps about (not using BFG).

[Troxx]

10 dps? A meleeing bard with OK weapons would still put out more dps. A lot more dps ... And bard melee dps is bad. To put it into perspective, 1 chant dot is more than 10dps.

Color me not impressed with archery still. It's neat for pulling, passable with trueshot, and otherwise worthless other than as a solo trick to not get hit for part or all of the fight.

The dps as parsed is still really bad. Ranger melee dps is considerably better.

[Ivory]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

10 dps? A meleeing bard with OK weapons would still put out more dps. A lot more dps ... And bard melee dps is bad. To put it into perspective, 1 chant dot is more than 10dps.

Bows don't do 10 dps -_- lol

[Cecily]

I don't think those parses suppressed the pulls, which take awhile there, so just look at the total damage, not DPS. That's the important number.
And please don't bring bards into this.

[maskedmelon]

Given that time in combat is about the same, I don't see how the 10dps is off :/ Archerynis a nice tool to do things you can't with melee, but I don't see any point to make it out to be something it is not. Its not worthless, but its uses are limited ^^

[Troxx]

1/3 of 75 (25) is still really low output at level 55 and required 35 stacks of arrows. You said don't bring bards into this, but that is bard level melee dps contribution - and bard melee is bad. A hasted/buffed level 55 shaman pet puts out 20-25 continuous dps.

You commented on the fact that the little time she spent meleeing was about the same output. Was this also while swinging the terrible awful no good for anything but using a bow velium swiftblade offhand? With a real weapon and lesser but reasonable haste ranger melee dps wins handily and doesn't require you buy (restock), fletch (restock), or waste time summoning arrows (time better spent meditating for heals/nukes/buffs/whatever).

Archery is a tool for pulling, trueshotting, and assisting with soloing. For all the reasons you listed in your OP it certainly is better now, but it still is not good. I main'd a bard from 2000-2003 during and after this era. Archery did not get good until luclin. In luclin with am3 and EQ it was godly.

[Cecily]

25 dps is 1500 damage per minute. That's considerable. It's actually double what epic druids do mana free, which happens to be good enough to kill mobs solo. If you halve that for rooting or otherwise soloing, it is what epic druids do mana free, which happens to be good enough to kill mobs solo. The point here is archery a viable alternative for soloing without being extremely geared. Imo, yes it is.

*Tolerable damage output
*Infinitely sustainable w/ Tolan's bracer. 1 min of summoning gets you 80 arrows.
*Can med / cast spells while attacking
*You don't get hit

The melee weapons were flamesong / velium axe. Procing weapons that suit her dex build / budget.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

25 dps is 1500 damage per minute. That's considerable. It's actually double what epic druids do mana free, which happens to be good enough to kill mobs solo. If you halve that for rooting or otherwise soloing, it is what epic druids do mana free, which happens to be good enough to kill mobs solo. The point here is archery a viable alternative for soloing without being extremely geared. Imo, yes it is.

*Tolerable damage output
*Infinitely sustainable w/ Tolan's bracer. 1 min of summoning gets you 80 arrows.
*Can med / cast spells while attacking
*You don't get hit

The melee weapons were flamesong / velium axe. Procing weapons that suit her dex build / budget.

The only problem I see is that even if if it were 25dps with you tanking, then solo it will be half that because you will either root it or it will be moving and the 25dps reflects double damage for non-moving, non-rooted mob, yes? Unless you girls were rooting everything, which I would guess no? That means it is back down to 12.5dps solo :/

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Kayso [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's what I was thinking. Not sure on the 1/2 damage, but I would think bow kiting DPS would be significantly lower than bow dps in a duo/group/raid situation.

This isn't the "best melee solo dps" thread, though. So I think we're just talking about viability of bow dps and rather I should yell at some ranger I am grouped with for hanging back and shooting arrows as opposed to going melee. Apparently not if they've got even a decent bow. Was a surprise to me. Glad there are some numbers to back up what, up until now, was anecdotal assertion.

The half values is because at 51+ rangers deal double bow damage to stationary targets that are not rooted ^^

The numbers Ivory just posted are very respectable though.

[Troxx]

Edit- in my last post I meant to say I mained a ranger from 2000-2003. It was my first legitimate character and I took it through kunark all the way up until PoP/GoD. I used archer extensively, but prior to luclin only as a tool to help me solo as a class that otherwise struggled without it. The low damage output and longer kill times were only worth it as it allowed me to not have to spend as much down time healing or kill things that I couldn't kill toe to toe.

If you're soloing you're dealing with a rooted or snared and moving target and losing 50% of your bow damage. 25 dps now becomes 12. My point is, if the mob is not moving or rooted your weapons will net more damage production with less wasted time/resources. Outside if trueshot, not really viable or worth it. You do less damage and waste arrows. If you have unlimited arrows via tolans that 80 arrows a minut also means you lose 10 ticks of meditating.

Your parses only reinforce that. You could make the case that it might be worth it in a group IF you need to meditate as you can get in med ticks while shooting - but the contribution to a group would still be more sufficient in most cases by getting stuff dead faster.

Her weapon choices at 55 are also not so great even with the budget stuff. If she has 200 dex (2 proc primary a minute 1 offhand) the spell proc component of her weapons only contributes 4.083 dps assuming 0 resists. On a tight budget, She'd be better off with a cheap, fast jade mace primary at level 55 and a higher ratio offhand. Funds permitting, 2handers are the go-to prior to epic level weaponry.

What haste was she using when meleeing?

Nobody has ever argued it wasn't good for soloing. It allows a melee class to damage an enemy without taking damage themselves. It's not going to help you kill fast, but it will help you kill.