Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So we went from "in a group there are too many variables that can skew data" to "if I do X DPS solo I will 100% do the exact same DPS in a group"

So you've basically changed your entire argument at random

I did not change my argument. People just don't read, and make straw mans of what they skimmed or thought they read. The post history is clear if you cared enough to read through it carefully.

The reason why you test DPS the way I showed in my videos is because that removes variables outside of the player's control. Assuming your group plays correctly, you will DPS the same way every time, the same as if you were solo.

Once you add in outside variables, that changes the DPS equation NOT because of what the class can do, but because of what other players are doing. If your Enchanters suck and your pet keeps dying, that isn't an indication Mage Pet DPS is 24 instead of 48. That just means variables outside your control are affecting your DPS.

You could literally have 1000 data sets of players playing the game poorly (which would reduce overall DPS), but that doesn't mean the class actually does that much DPS normally. Troxx cannot even prove how good/bad his group was doing since he hasn't provided videos/logs. All we have is some DPS data.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did not change my argument. People just don't read, and make straw mans of what they skimmed or thought they read. The post history is clear if you cared enough to read through it carefully.

The reason why you test DPS the way I showed in my videos is because that removes variables outside of the player's control. Assuming your group plays correctly, you will DPS the same way every time, the same as if you were solo.

Once you add in outside variables, that changes the DPS equation NOT because of what the class can do, but because of what other players are doing. If your Enchanters suck and your pet keeps dying, that isn't an indication Mage Pet DPS is 24 instead of 48. That just means variables outside your control are affecting your DPS.

You could literally have 1000 data sets of players playing the game poorly (which would reduce overall DPS), but that doesn't mean the class actually does that much DPS normally. Troxx cannot even prove how good/bad his group was doing since he hasn't provided videos/logs. All we have is some DPS data.

Except one of your arguments previously when people have asked you to join a chain pulling group was that there are too many variables and therefore it would be invalid. You literally said that.

And then now you say that your solo DPS is 100% what you would be able to do in a group.

Those statements are in complete conflict with each other and if you try to dispute that then you're definitely not arguing in good faith and have therefore become the same person you've accused others in this thread of being. So which option is true? The group having too many variables and being irrelevant or the latter comment about solo dps 100% equaling group?

[PlsNoBan]

Imagine being this stubborn and illogical

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except one of your arguments previously when people have asked you to join a chain pulling group was that there are too many variables and therefore it would be invalid. You literally said that.

And then now you say that your solo DPS is 100% what you would be able to do in a group.

Those statements are in complete conflict with each other and if you try to dispute that then you're definitely not arguing in good faith and have therefore become the same person you've accused others in this thread of being. So which option is true? The group having too many variables and being irrelevant or the latter comment about solo dps 100% equaling group?

Please re-read my posts, because you are simply mistaken. My previous post has been my argument.

Since I am having a conversation with like 10 people, often times my posts may be missing context if you just read them in a vaccum.

If your group is playing correctly (which has been the assumption throughout this conversation), then you will DPS the same as if you were solo, because you are not losing DPS due to other player's mistakes.

If your group is not playing correctly, the DPS data you get will be skewed. Again, you could have 1000 data sets of people playing terribly, and it wouldn't reflect the actual DPS of the class.

Comparing one single set of group data for a Mage vs. a Shaman doesn't tell you much, unless you could somehow prove both groups played similarly. This is why you test DPS in a situation without outside variables. That shows your DPS ceiling, assuming the group is working correctly. This lets you know what the average DPS difference is between the two classes.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I did not change my argument.

You changed your argument (and moved goalposts) multiple times, as has been pointed out to you multiple times, by multiple people. I present your posts in this thread as evidence. You have not provided (and you cannot provide) any counter-evidence.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People just don't read, and make straw mans of what they skimmed or thought they read.

No. You have not proven that "people just don't read".

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The post history is clear if you cared enough to read through it carefully.

There is plenty of evidence of you creating straw men in said post history - I present your posts in which you have created straw men as evidence. You have not provided (and you cannot provide) any counter-evidence.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reason why you test DPS the way I showed in my videos is because that removes variables outside of the player's control.

So you knowingly tested/recorded/captured/napkin-math'ed your DPS in an environment/situation/context that is contrary to the environment/situation/context of the discussion and are attempting to claim that your data is relevant? It is not. This really isn't hard hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Assuming your group plays correctly, you will DPS the same way every time, the same as if you were solo.

Then why did you (correctly, factually) state that the variables have (at bare minimum, the potential to have) an effect on DPS (or in your own words "skew the data") in the below quote?

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in a group setting, there are too many variables out of your control that can skew the data

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Once you add in outside variables, that changes the DPS equation NOT because of what the class can do, but because of what other players are doing. If your Enchanters suck and your pet keeps dying, that isn't an indication Mage DPS is 20 instead of 40. That just means variables outside your control are affecting your DPS.

No. The "DPS equation" does not change and you have provided zero evidence that it does, so I am not sure what point you believe you are making hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is factually correct that variables outside of a specific player's control are affecting/can affect your DPS when in a group setting. In (irrefutable) fact, multiple other posters have provided this (irrefutable) fact (among others) to you already in attempts/efforts to explain to you that your solo Shaman root rotting data is not relevant to the discussion about Shaman vs Mage DPSing, in which context/environment these variables DO in fact exist and are inescapable as this is not a simulation, it is a game played by players. That you seem to be ignoring this, or acting like you have forgotten it, will not change the (irrefutable) facts (which you cannot refute).

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You could literally have 1000 data sets of players playing the game poorly

You could also call the sky red, or repeatedly provide irrelevant math or repeatedly accuse others of trolling... but why would you, and why would that be relevant to this discussion?

[Gloomlord]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please re-read my posts, because you are simply mistaken. My previous post has been my argument.

Since I am having a conversation with like 10 people, often times my posts may be missing context if you just read them in a vaccum.

If your group is playing correctly (which has been the assumption throughout this conversation), then you will DPS the same as if you were solo, because you are not losing DPS due to other player's mistakes.

If your group is not playing correctly, the DPS data you get will be skewed. Again, you could have 1000 data sets of people playing terribly, and it wouldn't reflect the actual DPS of the class.

Comparing one single set of group data for a Mage vs. a Shaman doesn't tell you much, unless you could somehow prove both groups played similarly. This is why you test DPS in a situation without outside variables. That shows your DPS ceiling, assuming the group is working correctly. This lets you know what the average DPS difference is between the two classes.

Do you have a shred of integrity?

If the group is playing correctly, then no, the DPS will not be the same as solo.

Are you entirely incapable of seeing why that is? I call your bluff.

You're just a troll, you sociopath.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you have a shred of integrity?

If the group is playing correctly, then no, the DPS will not be the same as solo.

Are you entirely incapable of seeing why that is? I call your bluff.

You're just a troll, you sociopath.

Again, you have yet to explain why the DPS would be different if the group is playing correctly.

If I can do 1350 damage solo, what changes when I deal 1350 damage in a group?

If you want to say the mob is dying so quickly I can't cast 2 Ice Strikes, for example, then the Mage's DPS will be effected too, because they would not be able to cast 2 Shock of Steel.

If your Enchanters keep killing the party, that is NOT an indicator of average class DPS. It does not give you a proper analysis of the Mage's DPS, the Shaman's DPS, or the Enchanter's DPS.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If your group is playing correctly (which has been the assumption throughout this conversation), then you will DPS the same as if you were solo, because you are not losing DPS due to other player's mistakes.

No. There exist variables that are outside of each individual players' control such that even if each player believes they are "playing correctly" their DPS ("data" in your words) can be affected ("skewed" in your words).

This really isn't hard hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If your group is not playing correctly, the DPS data you get will be skewed. Again, you could have 1000 data sets of people playing terribly, and it wouldn't reflect the actual DPS of the class.

No. There exist variables that are outside of each individual players' control such that even if each player believes they are "playing correctly" their DPS ("data" in your words) can be affected ("skewed" in your words).

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is why you test DPS in a situation without outside variables. That shows your DPS ceiling, assuming the group is working correctly. This lets you know what the average DPS difference is between the two classes.

No. In (irrefutable) fact, your data is irrelevant to the discussion, as the context/environment/basis for this discussion (about Shaman vs Mage in a high level fast-paced killing DPS group) includes the existence of variables outside of each players' control, which are inescapable when grouping with other players.

You can continue to seemingly ignore these irrefutable facts, but you cannot refute them, and they will not go away hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[cd288]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Please re-read my posts, because you are simply mistaken. My previous post has been my argument.

Since I am having a conversation with like 10 people, often times my posts may be missing context if you just read them in a vaccum.

If your group is playing correctly (which has been the assumption throughout this conversation), then you will DPS the same as if you were solo, because you are not losing DPS due to other player's mistakes.

If your group is not playing correctly, the DPS data you get will be skewed. Again, you could have 1000 data sets of people playing terribly, and it wouldn't reflect the actual DPS of the class.

Comparing one single set of group data for a Mage vs. a Shaman doesn't tell you much, unless you could somehow prove both groups played similarly. This is why you test DPS in a situation without outside variables. That shows your DPS ceiling, assuming the group is working correctly. This lets you know what the average DPS difference is between the two classes.

"What you don't understand is once you are in a group setting, there are too many variables out of your control that can skew the data"

"On P99 if I do 1350 damage solo, I will also do 1350 damage in a group against the same mob."

And now we're shifting to "If your group is playing correctly" the DPS will be the same...so now you've created a vague standard to ensure your argument works. Got it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"What you don't understand is once you are in a group setting, there are too many variables out of your control that can skew the data"

"On P99 if I do 1350 damage solo, I will also do 1350 damage in a group against the same mob."

And now we're shifting to "If your group is playing correctly" the DPS will be the same...so now you've created a vague standard to ensure your argument works. Got it.

... What? The conversation has always assumed the group is playing correctly. You can literally check the post history lol. This hasn't changed. Everybody agreed to that standard, both sides.

You deal 0 DPS if your group is dying and not killing any mobs, so I am not sure why we would include that scenario.