NY GRAND JURY VOTES TO INDICT TRUMP

[Landroval]

Originally Posted by aussenseiter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think DeSoros is talking about the same thing when he complains about the 'administrative state'.

I interpret it as a dog whistle for Jews; just like "rich white men" is a dog whistle for Jews.

[aussenseiter]

Originally Posted by Landroval [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I interpret it as a dog whistle for Jews; just like "rich white men" is a dog whistle for Jews.

Let Nixon out of his cage!

[Ooloo]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Funny how you conveniently leave out the fake electors efforts, which is what he is going to get charged for. Moron.

As far as "opining as such" there's been witness testimony already that Trump knew he'd lost and there wasn't widespread fraud. As a result, there are definitely legal theories that can hold someone accountable for the events on January 6th because there are definite limits to free speech, especially when it comes to assaults on our democracy by a guy who wants to be a dictator. But I doubt that's what they go after him for. I bet they will just do the fake electors because that evidence is already completely obvious (including written emails from people saying they know they're just making up a fake slate of electors) such that it will be an open and shut case with an easy conviction.

Haha "a guy who wants to be a dictator" I love how casually you just mix your own opinionated mind-reading with what is supposed to be some kind of objective analysis. You'd make a great cable news host cause you sound exactly like one.

The "fake electors" were just alternate electors, which is not some wild new thing. They are trying to hang him on an incredibly fickle manipulation of language. States can appoint "alternate electors" under certain circumstances, but if they don't specify it as such that's not allowed. And why is this just coming up now? We're talking about something that happened two years ago. If they actually had a smoking gun they would have used it long ago, this is clearly a desperate attempt to get him off the 2024 ballot, by his chief political opposition. The bidens are not exactly boyscouts if you hadn't noticed yet.

You probably also think that when he said "let's find the votes I need" or whatever on that georgia phonecall he meant "HAY GUYZ LETS MAKE UP FAKE VOTEZ LOL", as if he thought that would fly. No, he just meant "hey I think there's easily enough legit votes that didn't get counted due to fraud that I should win the state if we just look into this fraud issue".

I'm not saying he's right about any of those fraud claims btw, but the desperate attempt to twist his words and selectively interpret them to paint him as some bumbling super villain who was trying to overthrow the country is absurd.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Haha "a guy who wants to be a dictator" I love how casually you just mix your own opinionated mind-reading with what is supposed to be some kind of objective analysis. You'd make a great cable news host cause you sound exactly like one.

He's literally said that he thinks countries are run better by dictators and that the US would be better with that type of system.

Originally Posted by Ooloo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The "fake electors" were just alternate electors, which is not some wild new thing. They are trying to hang him on an incredibly fickle manipulation of language. States can appoint "alternate electors" under certain circumstances, but if they don't specify it as such that's not allowed. And why is this just coming up now? We're talking about something that happened two years ago. If they actually had a smoking gun they would have used it long ago, this is clearly a desperate attempt to get him off the 2024 ballot, by his chief political opposition. The bidens are not exactly boyscouts if you hadn't noticed yet.

States are not allowed to have "alternate electors" really. The State constitutions require electors to be pledged to those who won the state. The one time you had dueling electors in history was because Hawaii assigned the electors to the current winner of the state and then changed to the other slate of electors when the recount was completed. In no way was that analogous to the scheme where they were literally planning to submit slates of fraudulent electors (and there are literal emails such as this: “We would just be sending in ‘fake’ electoral votes to Pence so that ‘someone’ in Congress can make an objection when they start counting votes, and start arguing that the ‘fake’ votes should be counted,”).

Essentially the goal was to create knowingly fake slates of electors and submit them to Congress and either have Pence approve those and not the real ones, or otherwise say that due to the different slates of electors the election was defective and the State legislatures would then decide the outcome of the election themselves (which would've led to Trump winning). It's a completely fraudulent and illegal scheme and defending it is the antithesis of democracy and the American system. I am embarrassed that anti-American people like you live in our country.

And wtf are you talking about why is this just happening now? Do you have any idea how criminal investigations work? These things take a lot of time to compile all the evidence (and fight disputes against subpoenas), interview witnesses, and put an entire case together. You NEVER should do something like this hastily because if you get a criminal proceeding wrong you risk putting an innocent person in jail. Are you also choosing to ignore the months and months of delays Trump's counsel have caused via things like frivolous motions, contesting subpoenas, and simply refusing to respond to the DOJ at all (don't get me wrong, they are legally permitted to do this (except the latter which as an attorney I think is extremely unprofessional)), but when Trump's counsel slows the investigation for more than a year you can't turn around and go "CONVENIENT TIMING NOW THAT THE ELECTION CYCLE IS STARTING".

[Toxigen]

yuo gottem nao11!!!

[aussenseiter]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He's literally said that he thinks countries are run better by dictators and that the US would be better with that type of system.



States are not allowed to have "alternate electors" really. The State constitutions require electors to be pledged to those who won the state. The one time you had dueling electors in history was because Hawaii assigned the electors to the current winner of the state and then changed to the other slate of electors when the recount was completed. In no way was that analogous to the scheme where they were literally planning to submit slates of fraudulent electors (and there are literal emails such as this: “We would just be sending in ‘fake’ electoral votes to Pence so that ‘someone’ in Congress can make an objection when they start counting votes, and start arguing that the ‘fake’ votes should be counted,”).

Essentially the goal was to create knowingly fake slates of electors and submit them to Congress and either have Pence approve those and not the real ones, or otherwise say that due to the different slates of electors the election was defective and the State legislatures would then decide the outcome of the election themselves (which would've led to Trump winning). It's a completely fraudulent and illegal scheme and defending it is the antithesis of democracy and the American system. I am embarrassed that anti-American people like you live in our country.

And wtf are you talking about why is this just happening now? Do you have any idea how criminal investigations work? These things take a lot of time to compile all the evidence (and fight disputes against subpoenas), interview witnesses, and put an entire case together. You NEVER should do something like this hastily because if you get a criminal proceeding wrong you risk putting an innocent person in jail. Are you also choosing to ignore the months and months of delays Trump's counsel have caused via things like frivolous motions, contesting subpoenas, and simply refusing to respond to the DOJ at all (don't get me wrong, they are legally permitted to do this (except the latter which as an attorney I think is extremely unprofessional)), but when Trump's counsel slows the investigation for more than a year you can't turn around and go "CONVENIENT TIMING NOW THAT THE ELECTION CYCLE IS STARTING".

Is a faithless elector a false elector and vice versa? We had Faith Spotted Eagle in 2016. SCOTUS has since said that states may punish faithlessness, if they choose to. Generally it's just swapped out for a 'true' vote.

I think they're charged with fraud though, never having been selected as electors.

Does that codify power to the extant parties?

Regarding election litigation post-2020 election, most of the cases were (correctly) ruled to be nonjusticiable, meaning federal courts had no authority to decide in either direction - that it was up to the individual state(s). That's a lot different than a round rejection.

[aussenseiter]

Pence wouldn't approve the false slates anyway, not because he wanted to or did not want to, but because the House takes a vote to ratify or reject them.

He chose not to let them vote.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by aussenseiter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Pence wouldn't approve the false slates anyway, not because he wanted to or did not want to, but because the House takes a vote to ratify or reject them.

He chose not to let them vote.

Someone in Congress could object to the true electors and then Pence could choose to count the fake electors. Or at least that's what the Trump team was trying to convince him he had the authority to do, which he really didn't (whether or not someone in Congress objected).

It all hinged on that whole false idea that Pence had some power beyond ceremonial. Unfortunately for Trump, he and his team went beyond just trying to convince Pence to delay the count and certification...they created knowingly fraudulent slates of electors and tried to convince Pence to use those as ammo for why the election couldn't be certified for Biden. If they had just stopped at the step of telling Pence he had some non-ceremonial authority, I doubt you'd be seeing this eventual indictment. It's when they crossed into the territory of engaging in these over and deliberately fraudulent acts to subvert an election that they got into really hot water (separately it's also stunning to me that these guys knew what they were doing was illegal, but they created paper trail after paper trail about it...like if you know you're trying to subvert a free and fair election wouldn't you make sure nothing was put down in email, text message, etc.?).

At any rate, as a Republican I'm extremely happy this is all happening. Trump is a completely proven loser and almost nothing good has happened for my party since he came into the fold. He's caused us to lose left and right, especially on a federal level...even when we have a slim majority in the House it's completely dysfunctional because it's filled with nut jobs empowered by Trump who are more interested in whack job conspiracy theories than governing. Once Trump is convicted and jailed hopefully we can eventually get back to a better, more successful GOP!

[Patriam1066]

Trump and Biden are terrible candidates and the only people who could possibly lose to one another

It’s a retard coin flip. And yet the empire still prospers and shit holes like europe, China, and the Middle East dither

What a time to be alive

[Botten]

Biden-Harris Administration Releases State-By-State Data on $39 Billion in Loan Forgiveness for 804,000 Borrowers as a Result of Fixes to Income-Driven Repayment Plans

Good Job Biden administration