******Official politics thread ******

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Basic income is not something being "done for you".

you say below it is though and you are absolutely right, it allows you to exist without developing the skills necessary to succeed while pursuing interests. yes, it would be great if we could all pursue our hearts desires to the fullest extent, but if we lack the tools to do so effectively how does that benefit anyone. take a look at student loans.

It does absolutely nothing to get in the way of learning processes or personal development.

it defers learning to be a functional member of society.

In fact, it is conducive to these things because it provides people OPTIONS. Rather than taking two or three part time exploitative jobs just to keep above water, they are free to bargain the price of their own labor in an extremely liberating way. "Nah I'm not gonna take a job flipping burgers at McDonalds for $7 an hour because I don't need to. Instead I'm going to learn how to paint or mix music and sell that" or "Instead I'm going to try to start a business grooming dogs because I LOVE animals".

sure, you can learn all sorts of things that you would like to, but it refers learning the things you need to.

Of course some people will say "I'm gonna stay at home and do jack shit", but they probably would have anyway, and it's not like they were contributing much at their meaningless low-skill job. And honestly, society would probably shun them for it.

this is the point. of course we won't see a majority of people suddenly stay home. i already affirmed that in my post. but those who already do nothing, will now find it easier along with those who do little and those who do not much. They'll be able to continue without or at least with less pressure to correct destructive behavior. people will do what they have always done. that is the point.

The fundamental premise of basic income isn't that you are just being given money for nothing but that, as an American citizen, you own a share of the national wealth and prosperity that is made on the backs of labor.

why would you own a share of profit from labor you didn't furnish?

(Of course they'd have to get rid of birthright citizenship at some point and majorly reform immigration). Kind of like how citizens of Norway or Alaska are cut a dividend check from their national oil companies. (Their societies didn't implode because everyone just stayed home masturbating instead of going to work by the way).

we should be so lucky to have such a society.

Furthermore, if you look at the children of rich families, or even royalty, going all throughout history, for whom work is entirely optional, you will rarely see them just fuck around and do nothing. It's because cultural and societal expectations of us are FAR STRONGER than whatever drive to "do nothing" exists because you've been given money. What busty heiress is going to fuck little Timmy Johnson of the Johnson & Johnson fortune if he just stays at home all day wanking? No, he's going to learn sailing, literature, and probably how to run parts of his family's business, or philanthropy, because there's more inspiration to life than making money.

Like I said above and in my last post, I am not concerned people will do nothing just because they are given money. that's not the issue.

And this isn't even touching on the problems posed by automation.

tell me how subsidizing the lifestyles of the least productive, most prolific breeders is going to help combat the challenges of automation :c

You are wrong in that belief in the vast majority of cases.

this is a bold assertion, prove it. you can't. You can demonstrate correlations, but that is the extent, which is why I refrained from making an assertion. tell me this though, which came first, poverty or people?

Failure causes poverty and poverty promotes failure in a state of dynamic equilibrium.

See above ^^

You said it yourself. "Those who are unfortunate enough to be born into it generally remain there". That's because, in the vast majority of cases, IT TRAPS PEOPLE, and it takes a real big-dicked gunner to claw their way out.

I did and I stand by it. I contend that it is their natural state. The path from poverty is very simple: graduate high school, do not commit crime and defer reproduction. [/quote]

It turns out that when, as a culture and as a government, you provide a stepladder out of poverty, it becomes far less infectious, heritable, and persistent. More people are able to climb out. The inter-generational damage is far less. Providing nutritional assistance to a poor kid because his dipshit mom can't or won't feed him properly isn't going to sabotage the kid. It's probably going to help his brain develop normally, as we know better nutrition as a kid = higher IQ and better health as an adult.

administering insulin to a diabetic body allows the body to function mostly normally by allowing it to process sugars. it does not cure the diabetes.

Living in the US right now often feels like being held back in grade school and watching your classmates go on into the future without you. If the Cold War was seen as a rivalry between market capitalism and communism to see which system is better, I see our current era as a rivalry between cooperative socialism and individualistic libertarianism.

The highly cooperative societies of Europe, Japan, Oceania, etc, are all doing better than us, the ruggedly individualistic United States. You can nitpick all you want about why that is or make predictions about how it's not sustainable or they'll eventually fail, but at the end of the day, they are happier, healthier, and enjoy more practical freedom and liberty than we do.

If you see the fall of the Soviet Union as an indictment of communism/socialism, then you must also necessarily see the decline of the American way of life relative to our peers as mirroring the inferiority of our nascent descent into libertarianism.

not sure how this refutes my rejection of the authoritarian right. the US isn't descending into libertarianism. It is becoming more fascist. Japan and Europe are more authoritarian left.

[Pokesan]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you say below it is though and you are absolutely right, it allows you to exist without developing the skills necessary to succeed while pursuing interests. yes, it would be great if we could all pursue our hearts desires to the fullest extent, but if we lack the tools to do so effectively how does that benefit anyone. take a look at student loans.



it defers learning to be a functional member of society.



sure, you can learn all sorts of things that you would like to, but it refers learning the things you need to.



this is the point. of course we won't see a majority of people suddenly stay home. i already affirmed that in my post. but those who already do nothing, will now find it easier along with those who do little and those who do not much. They'll be able to continue without or at least with less pressure to correct destructive behavior. people will do what they have always done. that is the point.



why would you own a share of profit from labor you didn't furnish?



we should be so lucky to have such a society.



Like I said above and in my last post, I am not concerned people will do nothing just because they are given money. that's not the issue.



tell me how subsidizing the lifestyles of the least productive, most prolific breeders is going to help combat the challenges of automation :c





this is a bold assertion, prove it. you can't. You can demonstrate correlations, but that is the extent, which is why I refrained from making an assertion. tell me this though, which came first, poverty or people?



See above ^^



I did and I stand by it. I contend that it is their natural state. The path from poverty is very simple: graduate high school, do not commit crime and defer reproduction.



administering insulin to a diabetic body allows the body to function mostly normally by allowing it to process sugars. it does not cure the diabetes.



not sure how this refutes my rejection of the authoritarian right. the US isn't descending into libertarianism. It is becoming more fascist. Japan and Europe are more authoritarian left.

obnoxious reply style. were i to spend the kilo-calories necessary to decipher this dense libertarian tome i would surely perish from this gay earth.

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well the bit on me getting griefed off the forums was in a separate thread and got deleted. But it basically amounted to this place being an insufferable echobox and hive of shitposting until Sirken cleaned it up when I left.

And as far as being outdebated on Trump, I've already provided that for you.

Again we've been over this verbatim and it ended in your ZOG safespace. It's all in this thread.



identical to



Suplexed by



And by now you might be beginning to understand why I often duck out of discussions here because when you actually remember things you see that they often repeat themselves almost verbatim. I'm not a fan of having the same discussion twice. It was hard just to talk to Melon about welfare and poverty because we've had that exact same discussion before too.

it painful because you been battling the same phantom, that I am suggesting giving people money will make them do nothing. I wasn't suggesting that there, I wasn't suggesting it in my last post. you continue to debate that point though because it easier to defeat. it not my argument though. my argument is that we should not subsidize failure, which I am confident we agree on. what we disagree on is the nature of help and I am not sure how we reconcile that. will you consider my anecdotes on teaching and offer an alternative explanation of the actual mechanism at hand or why paying for someone to live does not constitute paying for them to live? the only way your argument makes sense is if you believe people are all fundamentally the same and that the only differences between them result from their environments. do you believe that?

I understand you want to help people. I just don't believe those aspirations, no matter how loving they may be to the individual, are in the best interest of humanity. giving people things may make them happy, but it is not always in everyone's best interest or even their own best interest to do so. children like candy, but feeding them candy at every meal is not good for they teeth. alcoholics like alcohol, but giving them alcohol is not good for them or they families. exhibitionists like performing publicly, but it not good to have body fluids all over the table at McDonalds. lions like meat, but covering you naked self with steaks is not a good way of feeding them.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by maerilith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's posts like this all over that invalidate the "Trump is a good guy, were peaceful, want unity, were good guys" thing. Basically it's saying "I support a faggot Trump and I'm a massive faggotfaced fuck who can't even begin to fathom war, cowardly as fuck man".

Ya'll are fucking trolls and assholes. If you want war, fine, but bitches can make war, it's not like dumbassary male war where people line up and rattle spears and shoot eachother.

You are all going to die if you call for war. I promise you that.

^^ not a threat. Just a statement of cold hard bloody facts. My bad if you feel threatened. It's not my intention. I am not worried about you bringing war. That's why "librulz" (aka moderate sane people) aren't all "OMG NO WARZ all over." We are tired of your dumb retarded shit. It would be a nice exercise routine to end you in war. I would relish it. I'm not a dumbass who's going to call for it though.

See, guys, this is a prime example of like what I'm saying about Bill Nye - get him anywhere near a nuclear reactor and there is going to be a full meltdown. It's inevitable, and likely in a quite delusional way too, same as the above quote. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[bigjerry]

butt eaurope do it and there in good shape

[bigjerry]

Originally Posted by goblet.exe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am not a Christian in the slightest bit my son. Some would consider me a creationist, but not in the traditional sense.

I only refer to our Architect as "God" so the masses will understand that "It" calls the shots, not these feeble minded primates who became self aware.

A transgendered human changes the chemistry of their body, therefore fiddling with our Architect's work. This is what is known to humans as a sin, and results in what humans call "hell".



Open your eyes or die eternally at the core of a distant star.

damn this is woke

i got theories who my nword here be but ima keep that on the lo

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by bigjerry [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

butt eaurope do it and there in good shape

Well you know, you know, by design it'll fail. Out of the ashes the phoenix will rise. Same with the US, our ticking time bomb being the huge debt rang up by our globalist establishment elite politicians in recent years. It'll all fall. There will be a purge. Then they will raise the true intended NWO world govt. McCain was just out touring Europe last week praising the NWO. They haven't given up, they know the collapse is inevitable, as well as war.

Stock up some, avoid the camps. Look at what they just did in Londonstan, SAS troops on the streets now, permanently. It's coming.

[maskedmelonpai]

tbh, if US fall into chaos and war zone, i hope the first nuclear bomb land on my home and vape me in my sleeps. no interest in surviving with batteries and sticks and stuff.

[bigjerry]

i got griefed off the forums

[Daywolf]

See? I told you guys that was a Ma0 alt troll account, and self trolling etc heh he's done it before.

Originally Posted by maskedmelonpai [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

tbh, if US fall into chaos and war zone, i hope the first nuclear bomb land on my home and vape me in my sleeps. no interest in surviving with batteries and sticks and stuff.

That's what they are counting on. Try turning off smart phone data a few days, ween yourself off of it. They know people will have withdrawals, take to the streets, where you wont want to be at that time. First month or so would be the most rotten.

I don't think the US will be vaporized, they want the farming lands here. But then again it's all been poisoned with GMO crops, so they may just take it as a loss, if need be. Anyway, you are thinking mass exchange? Nah, it'll mostly be riots etc. HRC and 0bama were taking it to MAD levels, but now I think the worst we would get are EMP's here, which would still be devastating over time, especially to the food chain. I'm more concerned about nuclear reactors being knocked out due to power loss. Best to have a bug-out plan if near one or downwind from one.

Economic meltdown is the key here, they don't want to vaporize the world, just collapse the govts and put something else in it's place. At the same time though, a war would serve to make sure countries like Russia and China have no real competing currency which the NWO wants to control world-wide. China is poised to move up the food chain of currency with a gold backed system, of course after being given much of our gold while they supporting globalism ... of which they likely plan to smash in favor of Chinese imperial rule.

Basic income is just a diversion, to keep eyes off of the slight of hand in the big picture.