student loans are a hit!

[loramin]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The difference between giving away 10 years of your life, especially as a younger offender, versus like 20-30 years, is beyond words better. Not to mention for middle aged offenders, the idea of giving away the best decades of your life to a complete shithole prison, and getting out at the nice old age, is just as bad mentally on someone as doing a few years?

Is anyone really trying to make this argument?

Right, you're saying that as a rational adult, assuming you're going to get caught. But criminals don't think that way.

I used to shoplift as a kid. Now, if we had the death penalty for shoplifting or something, that might have stopped me. Otherwise though, I was going to shoplift without even knowing the exact consequences of getting caught, because I didn't think I was going to get caught.

And again, for more serious crimes like murder ... if someone is considering murdering another person, they're not thinking very much about the number of years in their sentence if they get caught: that's just human nature.

[Lune]

Originally Posted by aussenseiter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You didn't answer the why part? ��

Baseball taught me that every analytics guy should be beaten regularly and severely.

I thought Moneyball told the true story of how data analysis (statistics) revolutionized the way Baseball teams were run, such that all every major league does it to some degree. But then what do I know about baseball

I appreciate the implication that the people who develop medications and surgical techniques for your granny are pussies nonetheless.

[aussenseiter]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought Moneyball told the true story of how data analysis (statistics) revolutionized the way Baseball teams were run, such that all every major league does it to some degree. But then what do I know about baseball

I appreciate the implication that the people who develop medications and surgical techniques for your granny are pussies nonetheless.

Sure but what is baseball analytics measuring?

Heart size?

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Right, you're saying that as a rational adult, assuming you're going to get caught. But criminals don't think that way.

I used to shoplift as a kid. Now, if we had the death penalty for shoplifting or something, that might have stopped me. Otherwise though, I was going to shoplift without even knowing the exact consequences of getting caught, because I didn't think I was going to get caught.

And again, for more serious crimes like murder ... if someone is considering murdering another person, they're not thinking very much about the number of years in their sentence if they get caught: that's just human nature.

THEN IT STILL STANDS

that a person in prison is a person who is unable to commit offenses to the public. So the LONGER they are in prison, the longer that period where the public is safe from them

Keep neglecting that part aren’t we

Not to mention, no one really knows how many criminals heard through word of mouth or elsewhere about a sentence and decided not to. No one is going to voluntarily report that in some stupid study or survey

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're keeping people off the streets where they can't commit crimes against the public, but you're also taking someone who maybe could have been redirected and fucking them up, as well as putting a bunch of other criminals in their lives. Then think of the determinism of your life and consider how things might have been different for you if you spent your late teens and early 20's hanging out with a bunch of drug dealers, burglars, and muggers for literally years on end day after day. Also you probably already feel like you fucked up your life. Then compare this to moving somebody out of the situation they were in when they committed the crime, but getting them back out before their life is completely fucked and they grew up in prison.

Tony Soprano isn't like "oh shit they're RICOing us bedda stop mobbin'"

I’m not doing that, they made the choice to commit the crime. They are doing that

And no, I still understood right and wrong enough to stop hanging with the wrong crowd, had I began to associate with them

The main purpose of prison is not rehabilitation, I know it should be in fantasy-land where we can change people’s personalities magically and easily, but it’s not. Not in my opinion. The main purpose of prison is to protect the public from the dangerous

[loramin]

Originally Posted by unsunghero [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

THEN IT STILL STANDS

that a person in prison is a person who is unable to commit offenses to the public. So the LONGER they are in prison, the longer that period where the public is safe from them

Keep neglecting that part aren’t we

Not to mention, no one really knows how many criminals heard through word of mouth or elsewhere about a sentence and decided not to. No one is going to voluntarily report that in some stupid study or survey

You don't need a survey. You look at state #1 that gives 10 years for a crime and state #2 that gives 20 years: it's that simple.

When you do, you see that the crime rate is the same in both states: state #2's harsher penalty didn't deter anyone.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by Origen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's just the "starve the beast" strategy.

Try solving the poverty itself, even a Republican who does so gets called a socialist. That's why the John Birch people called Eisenhower a commie

Ah, you probably know about Ike's nephew or something. Ike wrote him a mil-spec grade letter while President. Basically spelled out the exact terrain that is fuckin with ye ol' American Way as we speak "Texas preachers" he even mentions at one point I am almost positive.

History: complicated, until you study it. Then just weird.

[Origen]

America has like, a quarter of the world's total prisoners and we're about 4% of the total population

I know conservatives love to see lower class people incarcerated for crimes that more fortunate people can afford, but it obviously isn't working

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't need a survey. You look at state #1 that gives 10 years for a crime and state #2 that gives 20 years: it's that simple.

When you do, you see that the crime rate is the same in both states: state #2's harsher penalty didn't deter anyone.

Because there are no other differences between the populations of 2 possibly very different states that might factor into those rates. Of course

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

https://teachingamericanhistory.org/...on-eisenhower/

Time .... moves slow .... through time ....