System rotation target ?

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by snwbrdr642 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i mean to claim the camp, as i read in the sticky, you basically need to be able to kill the mob as soon as it spawns. so if your at the camp waiting for your group and another group shows up, i think its perfectly fair for them to ask you to pull the mob right now so they can get their shot at it next. if you can't pull the mob, or you do and die, isn't it their turn?

Yep! That only goes for XP/loot camps, not boss mobs.

[snwbrdr642]

so scenario:

mob spawns and 2 people from 2 different guilds are tracking it. it spawns! mass texting!!!!!
both guilds are racing to get a large enough force there.

guild A has 15 people there and claims the camp, but for this mob they know they will need more players and a few specific players that are still around X min away from being there.

guild B shows up seconds later with a complete raid force and is ready to go.


my questions, using the "rule set" as it is right now:

1. how long does guild A have to get those people who are X min away their before they have to forefit their camp.
2. if guild A pulls, assuming that the rest of their group will make it there in time to save them from death, but this doesn't work out and they wipe, does guild B get their shot next?
3. is guild A and B likely to train/KS/or otherwise grief each other in a scenario like this?

[snwbrdr642]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yep! That only goes for XP/loot camps, not boss mobs.

oh where's the sticky for boss mobs?

[Aadill]

Variance is currently 7 days +/- 48 hours from when it last died. That is a 96 hour window in which the mob will spawn again, basically 5 to 9 days later.

[Aadill]

Those rules don't apply anymore; there is no claim to a boss mob using 15 people unless you look to last year's raiding rules. (it used to be 15 people in zone, anywhere). Back in the day Guild B would be able to roll call Guild A and give them 1 minute to respond with all 15 people otherwise Guild B would get first shot at a mob.

As far as back then, there were instances where some petitions were made by both sides, and some situations worked out without petitions. It was a very complicated set of raid rules that have since been dropped.

As far as the sticky for boss mobs: Most of it doesn't apply even if you find it: Variance is 3 day +/- 24 hours or 7 day +/- 48 hours depending on the mob, and it's simply FTE... work stuff out amongst yourselves.

[snwbrdr642]

so right now rule set is first come first serve, but with mob variance? and with (high?) potential of griefing in the case of a close race

[Skope]

Don't forget the bumgardener fiasco, who somehow tried to convince the server that he wasn't there when the rules were set and thus didn't have to abide by them. Drama flourishes and shit will hit the fan regardless of whether it's a 4 day window or not. The dojorn case being a prime example (and keeper of souls, as well). it ultimately worked itself out. Both with rule adjustments and player involvement. Both of these mobs are spawns that were not on a variance. Initially caused problems, sure, but they've been worked out.

When FTE hit the GMs/guides knew full well that there would be shitstorms in the near future, and they were there and hovering for the following 2-3 weeks. The argument that minimizing or removing variance will cause shitstorms is the same one we saw during poopsock > FTE.

[Humwawa]

You've yet to say what's wrong with it, to begin with.

No, it's not classic. A lot of things aren't. With the way the raid scene is, it helps more than hurts.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Humwawa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You've yet to say what's wrong with it, to begin with.

No, it's not classic. A lot of things aren't. With the way the raid scene is, it helps more than hurts.

Sort of like how you're claiming that it helps more than it hurts. Is that a good answer? Actually, i've gone through each of these in my previous posts. So here's a summary because you seem to have forgotten and/or lazy.

1 - You can't keep variance the way it is and maintain the classic spirit of raiding through velious. These two quite simply can't coexist with the current windows and rule set unless you're willing to concede that certain encounters, and more importantly the spirit of encounters, will be far different from classic and to be frank, a lot worse.

2 - It's not classic. This mantra dictates how this server works and why it was founded. The burden of proof isn't on those who wish to see a change > classic, but rather those who defend what's not classic. Defending boxing is far harder than defending variance. This server has a relatively low pop. in comparison to the old live servers so encouraging grouping is a priority. Now go ahead and defend SEQ.

3 - There should be no need for the GMs to babysit, invisible hand or not. Currently variance is the invisible hand that babysits by limiting which guilds can or can't compete in order to minimize GM intervention, much like poopsocking. During poopsock there was the argument that "you can poopsock too." Sure... but why the hell should I when it's clearly broken? People wouldn't admit it was broken until the forums were filled with complains and finally people caved in and things were changed. Looking back, no one in their right mind would think it was a good idea. These problems, though created by shitty raid rules, can be sorted out via raid rules and server rules instead of using variance as a p99-created limiting factor.

4 - What it's done is sprung this notion that wasting time tracking for 4 days and mobilizing for 15 minutes somehow = skill and success. This was never the case on live (or here, if you can remember back far enough) and this was created here and only here due to poopsock. Poopsock is gone and thus there should be no need for the massive windows. Big guilds who recruit more members that can replace those that leave are more successful. On live this quite simply wasn't true. Different people on different servers may or may not agree with this, but the reality here is that this is propagated by variance and smaller guilds have absolutely no shot.

5 - The spirit of raiding. On EQ live you didn't need to stay at your comp 24/7 and wait 4 days to be successful and enjoy high end content. That's something that we created here and it's being furthered by variance. It changes the way people approach the game and it's unhealthy. EQ isn't a job, and if you were smart you would plan your week accordingly. Here you have no such option.

The last one is a biggie... If a noobie comes here to experience classic EQ raiding he's come to the wrong place. Not because of the mass of raiders, but because the rules are currently picking out who can and who can't make it; the same rules which had nothing at all to do with why that person came here in the first place.


You can still have guilds who are better and who are worse. you will have players who are ostracized and those who are looked to for advice. you'll have guilds who can finish and claim raid bosses like they did on live, the only difference is the GMs shouldn't be helping to make these decisions. You can still run a server that minimizes poo-throwing and a relatively hands off approach. With variance i feel like it's a "hands off" approach, but only so far as the players are always within arms reach.

almost forgot...
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[Humwawa]

1 - It changes very little about Kunark, and changes the "Crawl" raid encounters only a little. I think in your case, the word "spirit" is synonymous with "nostalgia," which, while a major power behind this server, is also a poisoned concept - nostalgia often clouds the reality of the past. It also allows hindsight, and all the innocence of the past is absolutely obliterated by experience. ToV will be a nightmare without one of two things - guild cooperation and coordination, or variance. Given the nature of people, I sincerely doubt the former can ever happen. If you want to be our Martin Luther King Jr. and unite us, do that.

2 - It's not classic. Neither is the need for IP exemptions. There *are* in fact people who feel very strongly about being able to multibox, and they should be able to, shouldn't they? I'm sure plenty of players never even thought to multibox in Classic, and had they known that it was even possible, more would have tried it in the Kunark era. They'd be considerate of each other, surely - all it takes is a consensus between the multiboxers, politeness, and courtesy and we'd never see things like a six man group at Fungi King run by the same guy for 48 hours straight. Right?

3 - There should be no need for the GMs to babysit, invisible hand or not. I can't argue with this. Nevertheless, it happened in Classic on multiple servers.

4 - Quick mobilization is absolutely foremost in EverQuest raiding. A competent crew capable of it is the full picture.

5 - The spirit of raiding is nostalgia, corrupted by hindsight.

The last one is a biggie... If a noobie comes here to experience classic EQ raiding he's come to the wrong place, unless he applies to a guild.

Almost forgot!

If you want to be the guy who forms a cordial consensus between the major raiding guilds on the server, I strongly suggest dispensing with the passive aggressive victim stigma you seem to project. I had no interest in trolling you. I don't agree with you. =)