Green should disallow GINA

[Vexenu]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Logs are of paramount importance and must be kept as a feature. Without logs, we'd be struggling to find evidence for a lot of stuff here.

As I said in a previous message, a simple solution would be to delay flushing the logs to disk by a random amount of time, somewhere between 1 and 30 minutes. Also flush on zoning, /q, disconnect and camp. Do it on Green only. If people want to mess around on Blue with GINA and solo Naggy or whatever on their 5k hp monks - go for it, Blue is the place for it. But Green = classic, hard mode.

This way, we preserve the logging feature, but we essentially disable GINA and similar third party programs that give an unfair advantage.

This really sounds like the best idea if it is technically feasible and not able to be easily circumvented by GINA modifications (and it sounds like it would be very difficult to adjust for that in real time of the logs were being delayed by a variable timer). We would retain all the legitimate uses for logging while eliminating thoroughly unclassic, de facto cheat programs being run outside the client. Can anyone really say that would be a bad thing on Green?

[Glasken]

Gonna burst the bubble of people thinking the log files are a quick fix: OCR for streaming video is a thing, and its fast. And access to it is free.

Getting it to work reading P99 chatboxes isn't trivial, but once someone puts a click-to-use program together it will be just as prevalent as GINA, and not blockable. But if you take away one toy, someone will make another.

That said, GINA is kinda clunky and sad. Set a timer for important things, either physical or digital, and roll on with you life. If we were talking about packet reading and intercepting rare spawns or other bits of hackery, I would agree with you, but your current crusade doesn't have a happy ending. Let it go.

[Chryorn]

I think there is no need to even modify GINA. All that is required is a screen reader that dumps the contents of a chat window to its own log file. It would add one more program to the mix but I am sure the people who are able to configure GINA are able to find a suitable screen reader and just produce their own log file.
To prevent that it would be required not to have the relevant information sent to a chat window at all.

[kylok]

Originally Posted by Tenlaar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We're not talking about "an egg timer." Don't overly simplify what GINA provides.

It appears to me to be a sophisticated set of timers with real time graphs dependent upon info from logs. I'm not attempting to overly simplify it - that's genuinely what I see. I legitimately do not see why this should fall under the third party applications clause. If it told you when charms (random duration spells) were going to break then sure, ban it and anything with similar functionality - but it doesn't.

I've yet to see any evidence of this tool allowing a player to do content that they would otherwise not be able to do without it.

[Izmael]

OCR or not, something tells me that if we delay the log files, most / all GINA users will have to learn to play EQ without GINA.

Just my 2cp

I don't really care that much, never managed to make GINA work. Just want us all to have the best possible Green experience. Such a server launch doesn't happen often.

[soronil]

Originally Posted by dekova [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How would delaying a log by five seconds solve anything?

People adjust their timers for buffs/roots/spawns/mezzes accordingly.

I think the main beef people have with GINA is the "deadly boss mods" functionality. Real time notifications that tell you when something is happening that you need to react to. Buff timers are kids stuff. Removing buff timers is just an inconvenience. Removing real time notifications changes game difficulty.

If you delay the logging by 5s, GINA no longer works to warn you about "so and so begins to cast a spell" in time. Encounters are harder.

Again, classic feel > classic mechanics.

[The]

I'm pretty sure no one really relies on GINA the way you seem to think. A lot of people come to use GINA only AFTER gaining proficiency at their class, and use it to make the less fun tedious bits a little easier. I don't see the issue with using it to ruin other players experiences as there isn't really functionality in GINA for that.

[Izmael]

Originally Posted by The [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm pretty sure no one really relies on GINA the way you seem to think. A lot of people come to use GINA only AFTER gaining proficiency at their class, and use it to make the less fun tedious bits a little easier. I don't see the issue with using it to ruin other players experiences as there isn't really functionality in GINA for that.

MacroQuest, boxing or RMT don't ruin other people experience any more than GINA, yet they are forbidden.

[dekova]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

MacroQuest, boxing or RMT don't ruin other people experience any more than GINA.

You sure you don't want to think about that statement a bit?

[kylok]

Originally Posted by Izmael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

MacroQuest, boxing or RMT don't ruin other people experience any more than GINA, yet they are forbidden.

Boxing probably doesn't ruin the experience too much - but that's an issue that 90+% of the player base and staff agree should not be allowed. MQ on the other hand does have a very real and serious impact on the playable game. MQ injects code into the game, it's a completely different animal that allows automation of game play. It allows you to do content you would otherwise not be able to do without it.