Bernie Sanders at his best

[Lurikeen]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dont want to tell you why any of this may or may not work, other than I have watched bernie for the last few years and have been very impressed with his passion and intelegnece, the way he fights for his ideals and how his belifes are what drive him, not influence by outside doners.

his constituents, unlike all the other candidates are the people.

I respect that you "don't want to tell [me] why any of this may or may not work." You are correct that we are not going to agree. Although, I appreciate when people try to back up claims with some facts.

[Lurikeen]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Liberating our political system: Campaign finance reform to publicly funded election campaigns, likely requiring a constitutional amendment. Also gerrymandering needs to be addressed.

OK. I can go with you here. However, we both know that ain't gonna happen. It would cost our politicians too much power.

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Subsidizing lower classes: Labor laws that prohibit the abuse of part time and low-wage workers, increased infrastructure and decreased defense spending 1:1 ratio by the creation of an additional branch of the military that allows public service oriented toward domestic affairs such as infrastructure, civil service, etc. Young people often join the military for personal development, money, benefits, and economic opportunity. Rather than funneling their activity and funding into pointless work in Iraq and Afghanistan, it should be funneled into serving the United States public.

You do realize that we have AmeriCorp which is a civilian program designed to help inner cities and public works? It's a two year government paid program that college grads can use.

Please see my comments above concerning the military.

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not going to waste time explaining why the geopolitical of reality of today does not necessitate a conventional cold-war style military machine, that's a discussion for a while nother thread.

To each his own.

[ronasch]

Originally Posted by iruinedyourday [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will try, but naturally on some of these issues you may have an alternate stance on them. So Ill try to give you some examples that you can make your own decisions about rather than force feed you why I think they are important.

But to understand where my thoughts are at least coming from, it's that its time we put a long multi-decade investment in progressive ideals the way we did conservative ones in this nation, to see what hope and change can give us if we give it the time that it needs to actually make a change.

Here is some Bernie bullet points:

Comprehensive 12-step agenda for moving America forward. (Jan 2015)
Voted YES on $192B additional anti-recession stimulus spending. (Jul 2009)
Voted YES on modifying bankruptcy rules to avoid mortgage foreclosures. (May 2009)
Voted YES on additional $825 billion for economic recovery package. (Feb 2009)
Voted YES on $60B stimulus package for jobs, infrastructure, & energy. (Sep 2008)
Voted NO on paying down federal debt by rating programs' effectiveness. (Mar 2007)
Voted NO on restricting bankruptcy rules. (Jan 2004)
More enforcement of mortgage fraud and TARP fraud. (May 2009)
Ban abusive credit practices & enhance consumer disclosure. (Feb 2009)

Bernie Sanders on Corperate Reform.

Bernie Sanders on Education Reform

I dont want to tell you why any of this may or may not work, other than I have watched bernie for the last few years and have been very impressed with his passion and intelegnece, the way he fights for his ideals and how his belifes are what drive him, not influence by outside doners.

his constituents, unlike all the other candidates are the people.

All those billions in stimulus really help lol. A++ for spelling too.

So you think stopping foreclosures would be a good thing? If you want to see the middle class never get loans again for homes push that one thru. Not to mention the job loss that will result from no banks lending $$$ for new construction.

[Big_Japan]

big Bernie is all about dat "Corperate" reform. also printing money and giving it to those "Corper"ations

[iruinedyourday]

Luri, I just like to poll people (especially conservatives) because Berrnie Sanders is a candidate that is a lot less one sided than say, Hillary is. What are the odds or what would it take for you to throw your vote his way come November?

IMO he is totality a candidate that even die hard conservatives can get behind, he hates big big money, and wants to make jobs jobs jobs a priority, and even on some socially conservative hot button issues like gun control a lot of dems think he is too partisan. so he really shouldn't be too much of a stretch for conservative voters, and I know he polls better and better in red counties.

But anyway enough of that, I'm just curious are you on the fence? are you a lock for a no or for someone else?

Thanks!

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're creating logical flaws by oversimplifying what I'm saying. You really see this as being the result of capitalism or socialism being so simplistically good or bad and not as a result of culture?

Capitalism is an economic system which uses prices to calculate whether or not a particular activity produces positive utility, i.e. is profitable. The only requirement is a commitment to the system (no corrupt government, no violence).

What you fail to understand is that a free market gives you what you want. If your goal is making sure your neighbors have health care despite losing their jobs, you can contribute to a charity. If your goal is an iPhone 6, that works too.

Originally Posted by Lune

I wish Americans weren't so fucking selfish and individualistic

Yup, this is Socialism 101. You know what's best for everyone. If you are so enamored of European Socialism, why don't you move there? I am not trolling here, either. Workpermit.com suggests "Denmark is one of the European Union's most active members in trying to recruit skilled workers from around the world." Euros all speak English well, and after 5-10 years you'll know Danish and be able to naturalize.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Capitalism is an economic system which uses prices to calculate whether or not a particular activity produces positive utility, i.e. is profitable. The only requirement is a commitment to the system (no corrupt government, no violence).

What you fail to understand is that a free market gives you what you want. If your goal is making sure your neighbors have health care despite losing their jobs, you can contribute to a charity. If your goal is an iPhone 6, that works too.


Yup, this is Socialism 101. You know what's best for everyone. If you are so enamored of European Socialism, why don't you move there? I am not trolling here, either. Workpermit.com suggests "Denmark is one of the European Union's most active members in trying to recruit skilled workers from around the world." Euros all speak English well, and after 5-10 years you'll know Danish and be able to naturalize.

How will he then FTE Scout Charissa or Noble Dojorn with that horrible Euro ping though?

[Lune]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Capitalism is an economic system which uses prices to calculate whether or not a particular activity produces positive utility, i.e. is profitable. The only requirement is a commitment to the system (no corrupt government, no violence).

What you fail to understand is that a free market gives you what you want. If your goal is making sure your neighbors have health care despite losing their jobs, you can contribute to a charity. If your goal is an iPhone 6, that works too.

Go back to college and pay attention this time when you read Hobbes and Locke.

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yup, this is Socialism 101. You know what's best for everyone. If you are so enamored of European Socialism, why don't you move there? I am not trolling here, either. Workpermit.com suggests "Denmark is one of the European Union's most active members in trying to recruit skilled workers from around the world." Euros all speak English well, and after 5-10 years you'll know Danish and be able to naturalize.

I can't imagine why someone who loves their country would want what they perceive to be best for it. I could just as easily say that you, by promoting the free market, claim know what's best for me. Don't be disingenuous.

I love the United States for other reasons and have no desire to emigrate to a culture that is foreign to me. I'd always be an outsider in Denmark etc and I'm pretty sure it would just be too different to be worth the upheaval. Also, I come from a wealthy family, am educated, am entering an excellent career, and don't need the opportunity that is present in Denmark and missing here. I believe in socialism for ideological reasons not personal ones.

I do however want to eventually emigrate to Canada once I finish my doctorate.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Capitalism is an economic system which uses prices to calculate whether or not a particular activity produces positive utility, i.e. is profitable. The only requirement is a commitment to the system (no corrupt government, no violence).

This is exactly why conservitive ideals in economic policies just don't work.

It requires ideology for it to function. This belief that businesses will make moral choices and if a corporation does something wrong, people will be able to vote with their wallets. This has proven to be totally false. The larger a business is is the more powerful it becomes the less it needs to give a shit about anyone and still grows.

In fact what we have learned is the less you do to make your corporation 'moral' the more profitable it is.

We just don't live in a world where people will take care of each other and do the right thing, when time and time again, we've proven that (outside of government) doing the wrong thing is what makes money.

Which is where more social programs come in, we need to help the little guy, so he can have dollars to buy shit so people in the middle can sell them stuff and they can buy more shit so people on top can manufacture cool things for them to spend thier money on.

its like a trickle UP system.

and any good business man knows the more people in a demographic that can afford to buy your product, the more of your product you are going to sell.

So why not make sure everyone has a little something to buy stuff with?

And while we're at it, why not make sure they are happy too [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Lune

I could just as easily say that you, by promoting the free market, claim to know what's best for me.

No, you could not. By voting for a socialist government, you are attempting to use the power of the state to coerce me and the rest of the country into supporting your agenda. By voting for the free market, I am attempting to allow you to do whatever you please.

Originally Posted by Lune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go back to college and pay attention this time when you read Hobbes and Locke.

Since you have nothing but ad hominems left, I'm going to call it a day.