Stop the Socking

[Archalen]

lol

[Lazie]

So I did a bit of research Chest. These are just mobs from 8/31 to now in your's and Taken's guild threads.

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Inny and draco down in full on race mode. Grats Navir on a BCG, couldn't have happened to a less deserving person.

Originally Posted by Hodge [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

How about that FFA Maestro!

Originally Posted by Sadad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

An FFA VS+Gore, you say? Gotdamn, BDA.

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FFA draco and CT down. Grats me on an AoN because I'm a tyrant (jk high roll)

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Repop action leaves draco and Talendor deaded. Grats Cucs on his shiny new bracer and other people on loot that I don't remember.

9 mobs in under 2 months for BDA...HM. This isn't counting 1 Draco Class C slept on. Let's see Taken now.

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nagafen and Faydedar (water dragon shield) down to Taken on the repop. Yael for desert (had two robes)

Naggy here was FFA.

Originally Posted by Moodie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FFA VS, nobles, and some vending machine class R targets. Another successful weekend Taken!

Apply now:
www.takenguild.com

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FFA Nagafen, Talendor, and Severilous so far for Taken in the last 24 hours. And the night is still young [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A 3 pack!

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Sun Aug 31 03:59:22 2014] Cleratani tells the guild, 'VS'
[Sun Aug 31 03:59:25 2014] Venril Sathir engages Gorruk!

.

6 more FFA targets for a Grand total of 15 in 2 months there. These are just the ones listed in the guild threads of the 2 guilds. You guys are averaging almost 8 a month. I know Omni killed a FFA Maestro recently and a few other guilds have taken down FFA spawns recently as well. It seems to me you skewed your stats a bit.

[-Catherin-]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So I did a bit of research Chest. These are just mobs from 8/31 to now in your's and Taken's guild threads.

interesting.

so the R guilds that are doing so well in the current FFA arena are proposing to get rid of the current FFA arena, and instead go to full FFA on simulated repops only. who did you say we were trying to benefit again? Because that doesn't look like it would only be for our benefits alone.

[iruinedyourday]

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

interesting.

so the R guilds that are doing so well in the current FFA arena are proposing to get rid of the current FFA arena, and instead go to full FFA on simulated repops only. who did you say we were trying to benefit again? Because that doesn't look like it would only be for our benefits alone.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by -Catherin- [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

interesting.

so the R guilds that are doing so well in the current FFA arena are proposing to get rid of the current FFA arena, and instead go to full FFA on simulated repops only. who did you say we were trying to benefit again? Because that doesn't look like it would only be for our benefits alone.

Yourselves. Because you want more access to certain mobs. Erati said it best when he explained his stance about going for more VS's on repops. I think it's crystal clear the guilds at the top of Class R want the change because they know it benefits them. Even though it proverbially takes the food out of smaller guilds mouths. I'm glad he opened up so well in this thread when he was explaining his stance. I'm glad Chest backed up my numbers that shows it takes mobs directly from your rotation and adds it to the pockets of the larger guilds on repops. Everyone sees a little clearer now I think.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yourselves. Because you want more access to certain mobs. Erati said it best when he explained his stance about going for more VS's on repops. I think it's crystal clear the guilds at the top of Class R want the change because they know it benefits them. Even though it proverbially takes the food out of smaller guilds mouths. I'm glad he opened up so well in this thread when he was explaining his stance. I'm glad Chest backed up my numbers that shows it takes mobs directly from your rotation and adds it to the pockets of the larger guilds on repops. Everyone sees a little clearer now I think.

Class R mobs occur every 3 weeks. Or 17-18 spawns a year are Class R. With 2 repops a month, or 24 respawns a year, a third of Those respawns are Class R, so 8. Expect 25-26 Class R spawns a year per mob with 7 day respawn.

Class R mobs occur every 2 weeks. (Assuming C/R rotation). Or 26 spawns a year.

The Class R spawn number stays the same. Except with full FFA respawn, sure, Taken, BDA and Divinity may get 3 big targets. But other Class R guilds still can get big targets or the mid tier ones.

On a respawn, those bigger Class R guilds would target fire down CT/Inny/VS/Trak. Likely only getting 3/4. If two guilds have the same goal (say both go for VS), they will run into each other, one will win and the other will have to regroup and move elsewhere quickly. Which may mean 2 big targets are up for grabs to the medium sized Class R guilds.

In this time there's still going to be atleast 1 big target left up, plus the mid-tier ones like Sev (dem lightsabers)/Naggy/Vox/Gore/Tal. All of which Class R guilds have a decent shot at getting in the 5-10 min Class C is herpderp training and bladestoppering to get your Phara Dar. If you see VS is down you may stay in VP to get Druushk or Nexona. Giving the less hardcore Class R guilds more time to get a clean Sev/Naggy/etc.

The present system this is what happens a respawn:

4 mobs go to Class R, 4 mobs go to FFA, 4 mobs go to Class C.

The Class R mobs get cleared to and killed cleanly.
The FFA mobs generally speaking go to BDA, Taken and Divinity. If they don't all it's usually like an FFA Maestro or Draco that gets left for the smaller Class R guilds. I think the last FFA Trak went to whoever had Class R Trak on rotation since they were still set up for it with CotHing and such (correct me if I'm wrong)
The Class C vending machine mobs sit up while you train each other in VP. When you're done you decide which ones if any are worth competing for given you haven't bagged out yet.

But let's call a spade a spade. Everyone has their own self interest.

Class C hates these suggestions because it will likely lose them loot, they no longer have 3-4 guaranteed mobs waiting for them outside of VP when they finish.
Big Class R guilds like these suggestions because it means that every repop there are several valueable targets to race for, as opposed to the *maybe* 1 with the current situation.
Small Class R guilds like these suggestions because it means there is likely 1-2 high value targets and lots of medium value targets available for them to race for. Their vending machine kills stays the status quo as I showed above.

The way I think it could be sold to Class C is that Respawns don't have bag limits. So that even though you may be going from 2/3 weeks to 1/2 weeks having a mob, you now have the potential to get a huge kill list on a respawn, plus you never have to CotH duck again since the FFA competition will be respawns and your Class C competition already works so harmoniously.

If we (as the bigger Class R guilds) were entirely focused on pixel intake we would be in Class C or we could trash the rotation and take every third spawn in Class R. But we don't. We stay in Class R and Rotation because that's what we prefer.

[Visual]

butterflies

[Lazie]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Class R mobs occur every 3 weeks. Or 17-18 spawns a year are Class R. With 2 repops a month, or 24 respawns a year, a third of Those respawns are Class R, so 8. Expect 25-26 Class R spawns a year per mob with 7 day respawn.

Class R mobs occur every 2 weeks. (Assuming C/R rotation). Or 26 spawns a year.

The Class R spawn number stays the same. Except with full FFA respawn, sure, Taken, BDA and Divinity may get 3 big targets. But other Class R guilds still can get big targets or the mid tier ones.

On a respawn, those bigger Class R guilds would target fire down CT/Inny/VS/Trak. Likely only getting 3/4. If two guilds have the same goal (say both go for VS), they will run into each other, one will win and the other will have to regroup and move elsewhere quickly. Which may mean 2 big targets are up for grabs to the medium sized Class R guilds.

In this time there's still going to be atleast 1 big target left up, plus the mid-tier ones like Sev (dem lightsabers)/Naggy/Vox/Gore/Tal. All of which Class R guilds have a decent shot at getting in the 5-10 min Class C is herpderp training and bladestoppering to get your Phara Dar. If you see VS is down you may stay in VP to get Druushk or Nexona. Giving the less hardcore Class R guilds more time to get a clean Sev/Naggy/etc.

The present system this is what happens a respawn:

4 mobs go to Class R, 4 mobs go to FFA, 4 mobs go to Class C.

The Class R mobs get cleared to and killed cleanly.
The FFA mobs generally speaking go to BDA, Taken and Divinity. If they don't all it's usually like an FFA Maestro or Draco that gets left for the smaller Class R guilds. I think the last FFA Trak went to whoever had Class R Trak on rotation since they were still set up for it with CotHing and such (correct me if I'm wrong)
The Class C vending machine mobs sit up while you train each other in VP. When you're done you decide which ones if any are worth competing for given you haven't bagged out yet.

But let's call a spade a spade. Everyone has their own self interest.

Class C hates these suggestions because it will likely lose them loot, they no longer have 3-4 guaranteed mobs waiting for them outside of VP when they finish.
Big Class R guilds like these suggestions because it means that every repop there are several valueable targets to race for, as opposed to the *maybe* 1 with the current situation.
Small Class R guilds like these suggestions because it means there is likely 1-2 high value targets and lots of medium value targets available for them to race for. Their vending machine kills stays the status quo as I showed above.

The way I think it could be sold to Class C is that Respawns don't have bag limits. So that even though you may be going from 2/3 weeks to 1/2 weeks having a mob, you now have the potential to get a huge kill list on a respawn, plus you never have to CotH duck again since the FFA competition will be respawns and your Class C competition already works so harmoniously.

If we (as the bigger Class R guilds) were entirely focused on pixel intake we would be in Class C or we could trash the rotation and take every third spawn in Class R. But we don't. We stay in Class R and Rotation because that's what we prefer.

I appreciate your perspective and somewhat false rhetoric to push your agenda. However again changing it to C/R then FFA on repops does nothing but lose mobs over time for Class R when you include the Class R mobs on repops. The change you guys are asking for does nothing to help up and coming guilds enter the raid scene. You are actually taking mobs away from the Class specified for them to wet their feet in raiding.

The changes needed to promote this and this alone are not what you guys are promoting. You are promoting a system that largely benefits large guilds. If I was worried about my loot I would say keep things the way they were. I have already given you the best thing to push for.

[Fanguru]

Originally Posted by Lazie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yourselves. Because you want more access to certain mobs. Erati said it best when he explained his stance about going for more VS's on repops. I think it's crystal clear the guilds at the top of Class R want the change because they know it benefits them. Even though it proverbially takes the food out of smaller guilds mouths. I'm glad he opened up so well in this thread when he was explaining his stance. I'm glad Chest backed up my numbers that shows it takes mobs directly from your rotation and adds it to the pockets of the larger guilds on repops. Everyone sees a little clearer now I think.

I believe your logic is flawed and clearly, we disagree on that topic.

However, I wonder: can't these "smaller guilds" defend themselves?
I'm confused, why are you championning them? They are smart enough to make their own opinion.
If small Class R guilds have a problem with C/R + FFA on repop, shouldn't they be the ones argueing that point? I have yet to see that.

[arsenalpow]

The bag limit is something I'm currently happy with and id like to see carried forward. Class C already circumvents the bag limit by having VP never count towards it. If VP continues to be a class C playground then that's the fair trade off. Either EVERYTHING is fair game in a FFA situation (I'm looking at you VP) and the bag limits are removed or inflated for class C or we keep the current bag limit system and carry it over for C/R FFA repops and class R still can't trespass on the holy land of VP.