Sit aggro

[Yoite]

something else to consider is that if you body pull and run over a sitter with your mobs, they will attack them and stay on them.

In this case it would appear i did build hate, and i would appear i was #1 in the list, but sit agro seems to be over-ridding the hate list. In this case, the mob did return to me once it had hit all the sitters


From my testing last night, it would seem that only way to avoid mobs attacking sitters on incoming is to dmg the mob past a certain hp threshold. no other actions seem to override sit agro. Only once the sitters have been hit and standing will it go back to normal functions

[Volkier]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Recurring theme here is, "warrior can't keep aggro off of the sitting casters at the start of the pull."

Why not just stand up for a tick or two? Or find classic evidence that warriors were snap aggro gods? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They were not. They were by far the worst sustain aggro class of all tanks. But their taunt would put them on top of aggro list for that one moment - they just perhaps would not keep aggro straight after if someone in the group is dumb and doesn't control their aggro.

If you are going to suggest that classic bugs are brought in on the grounds that they existed in classic - this is DEFINITELY not the way sit aggro worked. The only time I clearly recall EQ having a similar issue, was after luclin expansion and after SOE took over, when they tried to mess around with some numbers. It lasted for about three hours before the problem was rectified. It might also have existed for a short time during EQ beta (which I wouldn't know, and if one existed back in those days since I don't recall games being in public open beta all that much).

Regardless all of the above, having to solo a mob to 90% before pulling to the group, and the mob blatantly ignoring actual aggro generation mechanic because someone somewhere is sitting, is a broken mechanic. That definitely did not exist through the working definition of classic, non classic, or any subsequent sensible train of thought - unless in a state of a significant bug. As such, if this is an introduced mechanic on the grounds of "classic" - it's not and needs to be fixed. If this is an introduced mechanic on the grounds of that the server is not as strictly "classic" as some people tend to assume it is - which in all fairness, is very reasonable and there is nothing wrong with minor tweaks and changes to an Emu server - it's a stupid mechanic that needs to be fixed. If it's a bug - which is what it feels like by any level of imagination - it needs to be fixed. Please [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Fysts]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't see how this description isn't what is happening now. When sitting, aggro radii are huge on p99 (since a patch like... I dunno... 3-4 months ago I think?), so when you pull a mob into camp and people are sitting, they get added to the aggro list and then the hate modifier for being sitting is tacked on immediately.

I don't see anything in your posts about how classic warriors could intercept a mob with a round or two of melee, as they dash towards sitting casters, and pull aggro. I also don't see any proof that this stuff applies to classic-kunark EQ; the posts are discussing spells that don't exist until after Velious and AAs and stuff.

Not trying to be a troll, just working with my less-than-complete knowledge of this entire monster of a thread [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you have 0 hate and bonus it guess what you have 0 hate........so pulling a mob with a hate spell or dmg generating hate, outdoes sitting aggro.

[Bill Tetley]

As a warrior the only big/annoying difference with sit aggro I've notice is that when I taunt a mezzed mob and then break the mezz the mob goes right for somebody sitting 100% of the time instead of me. I use to have a good chance of taunting a mezzed mob and then breaking the mezz and having it attack me. Now I can't seem to avoid the mob from attacking a sitting player on mezz break despite taunting prior to the break.

[dbouya]

on sunday it was broken. on monday the hotfix just made things more classic'er... yes sitting was a bitch back in the day you couldn't sit under a mob and expect it not to thwap you once.


all that said aggro through walls is problematic but is perhaps a separate problem than the amount of aggro sit gives?

[Volkier]

Originally Posted by dbouya [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

on sunday it was broken. on monday the hotfix just made things more classic'er... yes sitting was a bitch back in the day you couldn't sit under a mob and expect it not to thwap you once.


all that said aggro through walls is problematic but is perhaps a separate problem than the amount of aggro sit gives?

I never recall mobs ignoring all the aggro that has been generated by the tank and go smacking a sitting caster just because he is sitting in classic. Yes - it was dangerous to sit as it added a significant portion of 'bonus' aggro, but this was added to all the damage through spells and actual aggro you already had - NOT proxy aggro. The bonus to proxy aggro was minimal enough that a taunt or any other form of damage would prioritise that cause as the top of the hate list. You WOULD get hit if the mob is getting proxy-pulled, because everyone at that moment is on proxy aggro - but you are sitting so you have more, but not when damage has been done to the mob, or the mob has been taunted etc. You WOULD draw a good chunk of aggro for sitting after dealing damage or debuffing etc. but that is not the problem here. There's been countless proof of this mentioned repeatedly in this thread, along with EQ's developers' quotes. I don't understand what more explanation is required that this was not how classic functioned. Yes, sit aggro existed, but completely differently to how it is currently implemented in p99

[Danth]

Sit aggro may or may not need further tweaks--I won't make a claim either way. that being said it's not really that bad. It was pretty broken for about a day. Since then, claiming that mobs ignore all aggro and beeline to any sitting caster is not accurate. I can pull stuff directly over the wife when she's sitting and she doesn't get touched.

I posted in another thread, but I have a suspicion that part of the problem (at least with respect to tanks losing aggro to sitting casters) may not be the sit aggro at all. Rather it's possibly because normal melee aggro has always felt low here on P99, and this new patch really shows that for all to see.

Danth

[Volkier]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sit aggro may or may not need further tweaks--I won't make a claim either way. that being said it's not really that bad. It was pretty broken for about a day. Since then, claiming that mobs ignore all aggro and beeline to any sitting caster is not accurate. I can pull stuff directly over the wife when she's sitting and she doesn't get touched.

I posted in another thread, but I have a suspicion that part of the problem (at least with respect to tanks losing aggro to sitting casters) may not be the sit aggro at all. Rather it's possibly because normal melee aggro has always felt low here on P99, and this new patch really shows that for all to see.

Danth

I don't know, unless there has been changes since yesterday, mobs were running right for me while I was sitting the moment they saw me - after being bashed around by the melees and having 80-90% hp. This is AFTER the mob has been bash-stunned a few times on the way to me, and the tank landed taunts in the process of doing this. All because I was sitting, and before I did a single thing to the mob. Perhaps this is less noticeable at higher levels where one hit from a melee does more damage than 20% of the low level mob - but then the mechanic is STILL broken as it should scale with level, and not be broken at lower levels.

Granted - I do admit that the aggro radius of when the mob goes for you seemed significantly less than previously - but the mechanic itself functions pretty much the same in my experience.

[Danth]

Taunt does nothing when the tank using it is already being hit/at the top of the hate list. Your tanks shouldn't waste it while pulling. The stun from bash develops essentially no special hate and should be ignored. In addition, as noted above I've always thought white damage aggro feels low on P1999.

Danth

[Volkier]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Taunt does nothing when the tank using it is already being hit/at the top of the hate list. Your tanks shouldn't waste it while pulling. The stun from bash develops essentially no special hate and should be ignored. In addition, as noted above I've always thought white damage aggro feels low on P1999.

Danth

Yes - he is taunting after the mob is running for the sitting casters. Just like it's already been mentioned repeatedly in this thread. Which is the exact mechanic that is broken, as it is not doing what it should - ie. it is not putting the tank one point on top of hate list. Sitting currently does that instead.