Drama

[darkblade717]

Originally Posted by Shewz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So, I just want to write this little story down.

Tonight I stumbled upon the Lguk King camp fully spawned and decided to camp it. I killed the kor shamans and the king PH and the roaming dar, as enchanters do.

Then Slappie, Sernity, Elisa, Nocte, Dravyen, and Autum show up, saying they wiped and that the camp was theirs.

I say, alright I'll give you the camp after just 1 king ph spawn. I figure, I broke the camp so I deserve the chance at just one ph. And they agree, except for Slappie who hassled me about it.

http://i50.tinypic.com/2aad6hj.jpg

And then the king spawns with a mithril two handed sword.

I start pacifying mobs, charming, generally soloing how an enchanter solos. I get a kor shaman down and then decide to zone to let me and my pet regen. I'm gone for all of 20 seconds, which I figure is okay since I'm clearly breaking the camp, and I had made a deal with their group.

I come back in and continue, and end up with the king sitting in the middle of the room, and my 5% hp pet left. I need to break charm and de-aggro the pet so that it can regen to full and fight king. Fact is, it's not possible to charm 1 froglok and kill both the shamans and the king all in a row. The pet has to be zoned so it can heal.

Again, I'm gone for all of 20 seconds. That's when they decide to kill my low-hp pet mob and steal the king.

It's pretty fucked up that they waited for me to single out the king before stealing it. Apparently Elisa was tracking me and waiting for me to slip up and zone.

Ensuing conversation
http://i45.tinypic.com/28iolxi.jpg

It's pretty fucked up that Slappie tried to pull that on me.

Anyways, Dravyen decides that I can roll on it against Autum. Of course, Sernity and Slappie want it to be 6 rolls versus mine, but that doesn't happen.

Autum wins and takes the sword. And then they graciously leave me the camp. Of course, judging by how honorable their actions were before, it was pretty clear I wasn't going to get the sword even if I won the roll.

So, expect to be stabbed in the back if you strike an honest deal with Divinity. And please, don't pull the,"a couple bad apples" line, because when 6 of your members all are fine with pulling this, chances are a big chunk of the guild is slimy.

My experience with Eliesa is that she is a total fucking moron who doesn't know how to play.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by President [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He does not "need" to zone it to clear the camp. As another enchanter in this post stated, you only need to charm one mob, kill a roamer, and then pull king to the hall and kill it.

Fine, that's fair -- he didn't need to. But it's an exceedingly common strategy, one that Elisa correctly predicted he would utilize. The point is that they understood he was strategically breaking the camp. Nocte did, because he told her. The rest of the group did, because she relayed the message.

This was not a case of the enchanter requesting unreasonable patience, nor was it a case of the group attacking the King out of ignorance as to the enchanter's plans. Literally the second the enchanter zones out, one of the group members shouts in capital letters to rush the King. Why the urgency, if in fact the group member believed they were in the right? Why the urgency, if in fact they did not know the enchanter would be back in an instant? The fact that he was in another zone is a matter of semantics. He didn't run to GFay and pick up IVU pots. He was working the camp. This isn't a court of law, it's an informal arbitration of ethics.

If the group's intent was to steal the camp when he zoned, then they never should have agreed to a deal in which he could have the next spawn cycle. But you and I both know that their intent shifted drastically when the King popped with the Mithril 2-hander. If the PH pops, the group abides by their deal, the enchanter holds up his end, and everybody walks away happy.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

<snip>

TLDR version:

"oh i claimed the camp cuz you left, but um, hey i gotta leave the zone in order to clear it myself, so...... yeah, don't do what I just did to you guys, because I am only leaving the camp for X amount of time, not Y amount of time like you did, so the camp is still mine, right guys? riiiggggghht?? hey guys?? why are you killing my mob????? I zoned but its still mine dudes. we had an agreementttttt!!! You know the one I had to make with you in order to even get the next PH spawn because I have to zone to clear the camp and I know damn well i would lose rights to that camp without me making some sort of agreement with you first??????"

[President]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fine, that's fair -- he didn't need to. But it's an exceedingly common strategy, one that Elisa correctly predicted he would utilize. The point is that they understood he was strategically breaking the camp. Nocte did, because he told her. The rest of the group did, because she relayed the message.

This was not a case of the enchanter requesting unreasonable patience, nor was it a case of the group attacking the King out of ignorance as to the enchanter's plans. Literally the second the enchanter zones out, one of the group members shouts in capital letters to rush the King. Why the urgency, if in fact the group member believed they were in the right? Why the urgency, if in fact they did not know the enchanter would be back in an instant? The fact that he was in another zone is a matter of semantics. He didn't run to GFay and pick up IVU pots. He was working the camp. This isn't a court of law, it's an informal arbitration of ethics.

If the group's intent was to steal the camp when he zoned, then they never should have agreed to a deal in which he could have the next spawn cycle. But you and I both know that their intent shifted drastically when the King popped with the Mithril 2-hander. If the PH pops, the group abides by their deal, the enchanter holds up his end, and everybody walks away happy.

In agreement again, multiple people in the last few posts have stated that was the first problem they made, making some kind of "deal." Sure, the mith-2h changes things, they had been camping their for X amount of time, had to go to the zone to get two more people, and wiped in doing so and had to CR. And of course, there would be urgency. That might be his strategy, they might know that is his strategy, but he still, per the rules, he does not own the camp. Just like, per the rules, the CR'ing group did not.

I am not disputing the fact with you that the group was in the wrong, what I am disputing is your notion that the enchanter was totally and completely in the right and was an angel in this whole situation.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by President [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which is the point many of us have made. Shewz was in compliance with the server rules, but somewhat dickish for not handing the camp back when the CR'ing group showed up.

The group was in compliance with the server rules when they engaged the mob after Shewz zoned out, but they were also dickish for doing so.

What I find interesting, after both groups being dicks, that they still offered a roll off which Shewz lost.

The difference is that the enchanter took the camp after a significant amount of time, and without prior knowledge. It was 20+ minutes. And there's no evidence that he knew the group had been there. Only after he had done a significant amount of work to clear the PH did the group return. It is only fair that he's afforded the very minimal courtesy of owning the rights to his one re-pop. It's not fair for him to do 20 minutes worth of work only to have a group show up and claim his prize. The group had been there longer, they owned the camp: fine. He agreed to that. But he owned the one re-pop that he had just cleared for. Both sides of that, IMO, represent the most fair solution.

The unfortunate fact is that his 1/100 chance of the King spawning with the Mithril 2-hander hit, and the group -- recognizing their position of power over a slower-working, more vulnerable solo'er -- stole the mob when given the opportunity.

Had the enchanter been waiting for the camp, watched the group wipe, and then swooped in, I would have been a lot closer to your point of view: an eye for an eye, basically. But that's not what happened, according to available evidence. He just stumbled upon what he very reasonably deemed an open camp, and he took it. When he was alerted that it was not, in fact, an open camp, he agreed to relinquish it, only claiming the rights to one mob that he had spent the past 15-20 minutes clearing for. I don't see that as being a dick, I really don't.

[President]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The difference is that the enchanter took the camp after a significant amount of time, and without prior knowledge. It was 20+ minutes. And there's no evidence that he knew the group had been there. Only after he had done a significant amount of work to clear the PH did the group return. It is only fair that he's afforded the very minimal courtesy of owning the rights to his one re-pop. It's not fair for him to do 20 minutes worth of work only to have a group show up and claim his prize. The group had been there longer, they owned the camp: fine. He agreed to that. But he owned the one re-pop that he had just cleared for. Both sides of that, IMO, represent the most fair solution.

The unfortunate fact is that his 1/100 chance of the King spawning with the Mithril 2-hander hit, and the group -- recognizing their position of power over a slower-working, more vulnerable solo'er -- stole the mob when given the opportunity.

Had the enchanter been waiting for the camp, watched the group wipe, and then swooped in, I would have been a lot closer to your point of view: an eye for an eye, basically. But that's not what happened, according to available evidence. He just stumbled upon what he very reasonably deemed an open camp, and he took it. When he was alerted that it was not, in fact, an open camp, he agreed to relinquish it, only claiming the rights to one mob that he had spent the past 15-20 minutes clearing for. I don't see that as being a dick, I really don't.

Need before greed. Someone in the group needed it, the enchanter did not. I really don't care that he gave it to a guildie, he basically had to at this point to make himself look better.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TLDR version:

"oh i claimed the camp cuz you left, but um, hey i gotta leave the zone in order to clear it myself, so...... yeah, don't do what I just did to you guys, because I am only leaving the camp for X amount of time, not Y amount of time like you did, so the camp is still mine, right guys? riiiggggghht?? hey guys?? why are you killing my mob????? I zoned but its still mine dudes. we had an agreementttttt!!! You know the one I had to make with you in order to even get the next PH spawn because I have to zone to clear the camp and I know damn well i would lose rights to that camp without me making some sort of agreement with you first??????"

You were better off going with the overly formal legalized arguments, even though this clearly isn't a debate regarding the rules of the server, but rather the ethics involved. Sorry some solo plat farmer pissed in your corn flakes, but not all cases are the same.

[President]

Anyway, good arguing Daldolma, im off work, see yall in R&F tomorrow!

[astarothel]

Only reason not to call a cc in lguk is if you want to snag something surreptitiously.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by President [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyway, good arguing Daldolma, im off work, see yall in R&F tomorrow!

Haha later man. And for what it's worth, in response to your last post, I agree that had the enchanter gone above and beyond (as Nocte and Autumn did), he would have let Autumn keep the sword. It would have been the classy move. But he wasn't wrong to hold onto it, IMO. He just didn't go above and beyond.