My America

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They let people smash stuff up (wether they are protesters or police undercovers) and then they move in and arrest, beat up, disperse everyone else.

So I guess they should just let them vandalize property and do nothing, right?
Everything warrants a response. Proactively disperse a crowd when it is on the border of violence, and you will get people calling you for infringing their rights, that is just how it goes.

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quebec city in 2001 at the summit of the americas

I was at that for the record. I just happened to be at a more peaceful section when the gas cannisters dropped elsewhere, at places where numerous groups were throwing rocks, and resisting arrest.

For every account of police brutality there, there was an equally matched account of protester violence. If you're gonna be around the protestors that throw bricks at the riot shields, expect to eat the dirt, its eye for an eye.

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

“Unfortunately, their criminal activity was made a lot easier by the complicity of the crowd,” he told CP24. “And so we had to contain and control the crowd in an effort to control those criminals.”

Referring specifically to the actions of black bloc, this is a very real and accurate statement.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So I guess they should just let them vandalize property and do nothing, right?
Everything warrants a response. Proactively disperse a crowd when it is on the border of violence, and you will get people calling you for infringing their rights, that is just how it goes.

Who was suggesting the should let them vandalize property? Certainly not me, im not sure why youre asking me this question. Ive been trying to make the point that cops DONT stop certain protesters (or undercover cops) from breaking stuff because its the excuse they need to close protests down and how they justify their violence and repression.

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was at that for the record. I just happened to be at a more peaceful section when the gas cannisters dropped elsewhere, at places where numerous groups were throwing rocks, and resisting arrest.

I highly doubt you were there. The St-roch neighboorhood was drenched in CS gas. We knew we were approaching the fence 10 blocks away, when we started getting itchy eyes and smelling pepper spray in the air. If you were there, youd know the extent to which the gas was used. It is laughable to say that you could have evaded the gas if you werent standing next to people throwing rocks. Its just flat out false.

At 1:30 in this video you can see what im talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiSg2...eature=related

You dont evade a huge toxic could like that from not being close to people who throw rocks, unless you wanna protest at some other part of the city where the people you are protesting against arent. The locals (look at the footage, theres people living in those buildings) were so angered to be drenched in gas like that that some of them opened up their windows and started giving water to people by the bucket to clear eyes and drink.

[Gorgetrapper]

CS gas, that shit is laughable now after having been hit multiple times by the cs grenades.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Gorgetrapper [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

CS gas, that shit is laughable now after having been hit multiple times by the cs grenades.

Meaning what? CS gas is a military grade tear gas. Ive seen a 6 foot 4 guy vomiting violently from inhaling it. Ive been caught in a cloud and you panic because your lungs just stop breathing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CS_gas

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I highly doubt you were there. The St-roch neighboorhood was drenched in CS gas. We knew we were approaching the fence 10 blocks away, when we started getting itchy eyes and smelling pepper spray in the air. If you were there, youd know the extent to which the gas was used. It is laughable to say that you could have evaded the gas if you werent standing next to people throwing rocks. Its just flat out false.

I was at the summit protests, but not consistently near the security perimeter -- I saw the road that was going down pretty fast. People at flashpoints had been asked to disperse an hour before the gas really started flying. "Please leave the area or we will be forced to use methods to make you disperse" is pretty straightforward to me. Here's how a short conversation with someone I met on the bus ride there went. (his name was Matt or some shit I think)

"So they told you all to leave or they'd gas you?"
"Told us twice actually"
"And you stayed after they said this why?"
"We didn't think they'd actually do it."
"People all around you were throwing shit at the fucking fence. What did you expect?"

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was at the summit protests, but not consistently near the security perimeter -- I saw the road that was going down pretty fast. People at flashpoints had been asked to disperse an hour before the gas really started flying. "Please leave the area or we will be forced to use methods to make you disperse" is pretty straightforward to me. Here's how a short conversation with someone I met on the bus ride there went. (his name was Matt or some shit I think)

"So they told you all to leave or they'd gas you?"
"Told us twice actually"
"And you stayed after they said this why?"
"We didn't think they'd actually do it."
"People all around you were throwing shit at the fucking fence. What did you expect?"

LOL thats so funny, you trying to convey the summit of the americas in one sound bite that says cops warned people they would be gassed. Again, if you would have been there, you would know why im laughing, because its so absurd. So where do you come from? Are you a young conservative, whats your angle on trying to portray things this way? Come on just for my reading pleasure, its just some little EQemu forum, not alot of people will read it. Because fuck me if im going to beleive you came from Ontario or the US to protest and you just packed your shit up once the police started shitting on the Canadian charter of rights and freedom.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So where do you come from? Are you a young conservative, whats your angle on trying to portray things this way? Come on just for my reading pleasure, its just some little EQemu forum, not alot of people will read it. Because fuck me if im going to beleive you came from Ontario or the US to protest and you just packed your shit up once the police started shitting on the Canadian charter of rights and freedom.

I am a social democrat living in Ontario. Would that Ed Broadbent were willing to run again, the party has lost its way.

I am a staunch pacifist.

I have taken more than one week long course in high pressure conflict management and resolution, and will probably take one or two more before I die.
I opted against taking the LSAT over several aspects of the Canadian legal system I personally find disturbing and appalling that violate my code of personal ethics.

I have no angle to portray, other than one using my own experiences that are in contrast to your own.

I went to QC with the intent to peacefully protest, in addition to helping provide emergency first aid and medical assistance since I had my certs at the time.

I spent 2 days and a night trying to track down where some of the more involved and aggressive protestors that I arrived with got sent to (not an easy task for an Anglophone who only took french up to grade nine, when every quebecois is yelling in their own tongue).

I did not just pack my shit up once the police began "shitting on the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms", I got the "joy" of seeing both civilian and protester hurt, and it certainly wasn't all from the police you'd like to set up as being the inevitable relentless aggressor.

Feel free to try and paint me as a coward simply because I don't agree with violent protest over these summits. I am sure you would like that.

Feel free to tell me who I am and who I should be since you seem to think you know everything about everyone.

You know me so well!

va te crosser

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am a social democrat living in Ontario. Would that Ed Broadbent were willing to run again, the party has lost its way.

I am a staunch pacifist.

I have taken more than one week long course in high pressure conflict management and resolution, and will probably take one or two more before I die.
I opted against taking the LSAT over several aspects of the Canadian legal system I personally find disturbing and appalling that violate my code of personal ethics.

I have no angle to portray, other than one using my own experiences that are in contrast to your own.

I went to QC with the intent to peacefully protest, in addition to helping provide emergency first aid and medical assistance since I had my certs at the time.

I spent 2 days and a night trying to track down where some of the more involved and aggressive protestors that I arrived with got sent to (not an easy task for an Anglophone who only took french up to grade nine, when every quebecois is yelling in their own tongue).

I did not just pack my shit up once the police began "shitting on the Canadian charter of rights and freedoms", I got the "joy" of seeing both civilian and protester hurt, and it certainly wasn't all from the police you'd like to set up as being the inevitable relentless aggressor.

Feel free to try and paint me as a coward simply because I don't agree with violent protest over these summits. I am sure you would like that.

Feel free to tell me who I am and who I should be since you seem to think you know everything about everyone.

You know me so well!

va te crosser

I wasnt saying you were a coward, i was doubting you ever went to the summit of the americas. Cause you spoke like if people were hit by gas it must be because they must have been close to the rock throwers, when everyone that was there knows that the whole neighboorhood of St-Roch was smothered in a cloud of CS gas. It really sounded like you saw a cop throw a canister of gas at a protester on TV and you made up a story about how you could dodge the gas by not being close to the guy it was aimed at.

Thats what it looked like, which made me doubt you were there:

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[ShadowWulf]

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What was I doing?
Oh, nothing much. While the earthly gods and rulers
fought each other in battles cruel and fierce
and mercilessly razed all that my hands
have lovingly put up,... See More
I went on building, carving, molding, forging...

[Xenephex]

From the song by Phil Ochs:

Where were you in Chicago?
You know I didn't see you there.
I didn't see them break your head,
or breathe the tear gas air.
Oh where were you in Chicago,
when the fight was being fought?
Where were you in Chicago,
'cause I was in Detroit.

----

Chicago, Democratic National Convention 1968 is still the gold standard for police brutality in the lifetime of anyone on these boards (on this continent at least). You can go to various riots during the same decade for honorable mention.

If you want to get into a pissing contest about protests, best not to do it around anyone from my generation. Oh, and I wasn't in Chicago - I got there about a week later. In a rather incredible coincidence, I was just outside Detroit.

Taxi, you are just never wrong about anything are you? I can only be grateful that I will never have to get stuck in an actual conversation with you.