FTE is Fing stupid

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by kbnexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh I get it, its like when someone preface's a statement with "no offense" and then say something highly offensive.

No offense, but you are an idiot.

I wanted to say something along these lines, but couldn't think of a good statement to use!

Also, I remembered that I'm a retard for wasting so much time on the forums and tried to leave the thread alone. Heh.

[kbnexus]

Originally Posted by suptoofs [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do you speak? You literally have nothing ever constructive to say.

This thread has nothing constructive in it. Fitting, no?

Also, look at your previous post.

[quido]

You guys are trolling about trolling and about being constructive.

Take it to RnF and stop shitting up this super serious thread.

[Dantes]

Sounds to me like a rotation would actually mean less mobs for both TMO and BDA, because other guilds would step up and want to claim their own spot in the rotations as well. Ultimately this is a sacrifice both guilds would have to make for the betterment of the server, but it doesn't sound like anybody wants to do that.

It's understandable, it sort of goes against the very nature of this game. If we wanted it easy, we'd play an instanced game. But still... on a server with a third of the population of an average live server, comprised of mostly adults, you'd think everybody would be able to experience the high end raiding part of the game.

Competition is classic. But owning several "guild account" characters camped at every raid mob is not that classic. Being able to dominate a server with only 500 online during peak times, also not that classic. Winning at this competition is like winning a boxing match against a guy with 1 arm. Not really worth bragging about. Even if we did let every guild with 30 raid-ready members join the rotation, with that low population, how bad could it get if we had to share with the other children?

[kbnexus]

Originally Posted by Dantes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sounds to me like a rotation would actually mean less mobs for both TMO and BDA, because other guilds would step up and want to claim their own spot in the rotations as well. Ultimately this is a sacrifice both guilds would have to make for the betterment of the server, but it doesn't sound like anybody wants to do that.

It's understandable, it sort of goes against the very nature of this game. If we wanted it easy, we'd play an instanced game. But still... on a server with a third of the population of an average live server, comprised of mostly adults, you'd think everybody would be able to experience the high end raiding part of the game.

Competition is classic. But owning several "guild account" characters camped at every raid mob is not that classic. Being able to dominate a server with only 500 online during peak times, also not that classic. Winning at this competition is like winning a boxing match against a guy with 1 arm. Not really worth bragging about. Even if we did let every guild with 30 raid-ready members join the rotation, with that low population, how bad could it get if we had to share with the other children?

Well according to a "classic timeline" we should be in Luclin now. This is the real problem.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Dantes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sounds to me like a rotation would actually mean less mobs for both TMO and BDA, because other guilds would step up and want to claim their own spot in the rotations as well. Ultimately this is a sacrifice both guilds would have to make for the betterment of the server, but it doesn't sound like anybody wants to do that.

Speaking for none other than myself, I'd do this in a heartbeat, regardless of guild I am ever affiliated with.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Dantes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But still... on a server with a third of the population of an average live server, comprised of mostly adults, you'd think everybody would be able to experience the high end raiding part of the game.

Why would you think this?

Yes, server pop is much smaller than live servers were in the classic era. But even with a peak server population of only 600-700, you're looking at 200+ level 50+ characters. And there are only ~16 real raid boss spawns per week (outside of VP and sky) on p99. And when you consider that some raid mobs can be killed by as few as 2-3 60s, and no raid mob really needs more than 4 groups...

You'd have to spread those raid boss kills very thin in order to get all of those players (and those are just players, not characters) in on the party. Even if you tried to split them up just amongst TMO, BDA, Acyrid, Taken, and Divinity, that's only 3 kills per guild per week. And that leaves out a few other guilds that could also kill a number of the less difficulty targets like maestro and fay and such.

The relatively large number of hardcore raiders on this server compared to live would not be content killing only a few bosses per week, so they mostly have ended up in the same place and they proceed to kill most of the bosses.

Originally Posted by Dantes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[O]wning several "guild account" characters camped at every raid mob is not that classic.

I seriously doubt this is the case. It's probably more like "most of TMO has a geared 60 main and 1 vox/naggy alt" and "a little bit of TMO has 1-2 other relatively geared 55+ characters." There's no way TMO has several characters accessible to the guild at large at every raid mob. That'd be like 50+ characters.



The raid scene/endgame isn't that bad here, imo.

TMO dominates 90% of the gods and dragons, and BDA gets 9%, and everyone else occasionally stumbles upon a maestro or kills a dragon or two when TMO is raidbanned.

But SEVERAL different guilds besides teh big 2 (Taken, Divinity, Acyrid, Asgard, Full Circle?, Europa?) regularly clear hate and fear, complete all of the epics that don't require god kills, spend some time in sky, and have mini-raids in chardok and hole.


As far as I can tell, everyone would like to get in on killing gods and dragons, but no one except TMO is willing to go to the "extremes" that are necessary to win those kills away from others. Smaller guilds don't want to merge to improve their chances, most players are too casual to be willing to spend time tracking or getting out of bed for a batphone, and lots of players talk about washing their hands of the whole scene because they just don't like the way it works.

That's fine! But don't complain on the forums that you want to raid gods and dragons!

[Tecmos Deception]

I'm kind of curious about something though.

I know that on live in the kunark and velious eras, I was a pretty casual player (mindset wise, at least. I was online as much as a high schooler playing sports possibly could be). I was in awe of the gear that Trak and such dropped. I didn't even know what VP was. I had no aspirations of ever completing my epic. The most "exciting" things I ever did back then were pickup raids of vox and naggy or spending time with a single group at a cash camp somewhere (although back then I spent more time at something like warlord in KC than at crypt or HS south or whatever).

Was I just THAT much more casual than the majority of this server's 50+, that I was content drooling over drops from seb instead of demanding that my guild be given a rotation for attempting stuff like Trak and VS? Or is it the ubiquitous MMO entitlement thing? Or what?


I guess it seems likely that I was just blissful in my ignorance? I don't know.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As far as I can tell, everyone would like to get in on killing gods and dragons, but no one except TMO is willing to go to the "extremes" that are necessary to win those kills away from others. Smaller guilds don't want to merge to improve their chances, most players are too casual to be willing to spend time tracking or getting out of bed for a batphone, and lots of players talk about washing their hands of the whole scene because they just don't like the way it works.

Guilds shouldn't have to merge to compete. On Live you didn't need to have 50+ players online every night to be able to get a shot at raid content. Merging implies lowering recruiting standards because you'll be accepting large numbers of people without putting them through a formal app process. Smaller guilds are probably unwilling to spend time tracking because they have less people to spread tracking responsibilities to, and it's an un-classic waste of time.

Moreover, the time investment isn't worth the small chance at content. Just to give an example, a while ago I tracked maestro and we had a force up in Hate soon after he spawned, as did BDA and TMO. We arrived at about the same time and all three guilds had a realistic shot at getting the mob, but only one guild prevailed in the end. This means there was a ~33% chance of each guild getting the mob. When you consider that you spend an average of 24 hours per cycle tracking 3 day spawns, that they can spawn when most of the server won't be awake, and that the chance of getting them even if they spawn at the perfect time is very low, this discourages competition from smaller guilds - in ANY situation where they're competing against BDA and TMO for a raid mob, because spawns don't happen simultaneously, their chances of getting the mob are 33% at best (and realistically they're much lower than that for small guilds). Even spending 24 hours for one mob per week is way too much of an investment compared to what was required in classic.

Again, I reiterate what I said before that I don't consider this TMO's fault or BDA's fault or whatever. So long as they abide by the rules they shouldn't be expected to change their behaviour or do anything that's not in their best interests. By that same token, I'd appreciate that people don't make little suggestions to smaller guilds about what they should do to be more "on the ball", especially when most of those suggestions (poopsocking, merging, etc.) are totally unacceptable to us.

[Tecmos Deception]

I want to say I remember reading somewhere that the majority of TMO tracking is done by only a handful of the guild's players. Lord knows I'm not going to be able to find the post, but I'll try.

Assuming I did actually read that though, it just seems to reinforce the whole "the players who are willing to invest the most time/energy into raiding are all in TMO, and that's why TMO gets most all of the raid mobs" rather than the "small guilds have fewer people to share the load, that's why we don't get kills."