Item recharging is an exploit of game mechanics

[skorge]

hehe can't wait for the pvp server...item recharging = winning there; everyone knows about it now; well see how much of a rant this topic will really create then, and oh yea, if it gets nerfed there (red), its gotta get nerfed here (blue)

[guineapig]

Take your arguments about word usage to a private forum and let's keep this topic on topic.

[Nuggie]

Ok, to recap:

Brink hates recharging. can't provide evidence of anyone doing it in a way that breaks the game(other than hoop, which is fixed). He only state his opinions on what *could* happen.

Samoht started off the thread by giving helpful tips on how to make a cohesive argument in such a way that might show devs the need to make a change. He insisted it isn't worth dev time currently.

They went back and forth for about 15 pages with the same stuff.

End recap.

[Nirgon]

First when an item is sold to a vendor, there has to be code to compare it to the list of current items and update the quantity. When the two items match, check if item has charges. If it is an item with charges, and the amount of charges do not match, add it to the vendor separately. Hell just do it for the hoop if it's such a big deal. I'm just here to say life taps need to be fixed.

Create spell Drain Spirit (different spell ID, same name) put your resist mod on it, assign to hoop, revert changes to life taps. Dones. Necro and SK are fixed/classic/not further gimped on raids.

[Samoht]

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone is jumping on me for assuming things, but many of you are coming back saying it was simple to fix and they just didnt do it, yet you have no proof in that direction either.

We do have a time frame of four years where recharging was available, though, so strike through the they just didnt do it part because they just didn't do it for four years. That's proof. Maybe they didn't think of the database fix immediately or maybe it took a lot of back end coding to update, either way, it's not my place to speculate.

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody really knows what happened behind closed doors at VI or SoE. Its going to be extremely hard to find any documentation either way.

It's funny how this argument suits you when you want it to, but then you say things like this:

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What , in my opinion should be obvious, is that the mechanic itself was not put in intentionally. Its a bug, ite gives players the ability to do things in a manner they did not intend. Again my opinon, which I feel anyone with an open mind should see. It doesnt have to be game breaking to be wrong. I think ive said all this before. Suppose some are just not reading, or are and ignoring half of it.

Please allow me to quote you on this:

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody really knows what happened behind closed doors at VI or SoE.

Moving on:

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All parties here are speculatiing.

No, you're the only one speculating. I've refused more than once to do so, and then name calling ensues until I do.

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For all we know, they truely didnt have a fix untill october 2003.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And the reason for not maxing the recharge cost could have been many things, maybe they decided to make it a temporary plat sync, using one bug to cancel out other bugs ( that procuded too much plat ). Until they found said fix.

They didn't do that, though. They did it for items that were deemed OP to be recharged, and didn't change anything else, unless you have proof of them changing the buyback amount on everything with charges, but that will be nearly impossible to prove.

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We could speculate forever as we most likely will never get any real facts about it.

Well then we should stop debating it. Nobody has any real facts about why item recharging should be disabled. We do have facts that it was classic, though, and this is a classic server.

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First when an item is sold to a vendor, there has to be code to compare it to the list of current items and update the quantity. When the two items match, check if item has charges. If it is an item with charges, and the amount of charges do not match, add it to the vendor separately. Hell just do it for the hoop if it's such a big deal. I'm just here to say life taps need to be fixed.

It's easier than that, though. Check items, check charges, vender separately. Too much unnecessary code. If the items have different database IDs for each amount of charges, it becomes no different from selling large patchwork gloves and small patchwork gloves. Six dose hoop would have the same name but different DBID from zero dose hoop, and the vender would realize it would be listed separately with no additional checks required.

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Create spell Drain Spirit (different spell ID, same name) put your resist mod on it, assign to hoop, revert changes to life taps. Dones. Necro and SK are fixed/classic/not further gimped on raids.

I thought this was about recharging? Clearly off-topic and has no place in this discussion.

[Nirgon]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought this was about recharging? Clearly off-topic and has no place in this discussion.

Clearly related to a proposed solution for the current situation. That high horse is riding pretty low for you in this thread sir. Maybe I should stick to blowing smoke.

[Brinkman]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brinkman
And the reason for not maxing the recharge cost could have been many things, maybe they decided to make it a temporary plat sync, using one bug to cancel out other bugs ( that procuded too much plat ). Until they found said fix.

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They didn't do that, though. They did it for items that were deemed OP to be recharged, and didn't change anything else

You are stating something as a fact when you get on me about it all the time. Please provide proof that SoE deemed ALL the items that had their buy back price increased were OP.

[Samoht]

Sure, let me just find one of your posts talking about the price change on the rez stick...

While we're waiting, were you able to prove that they raised the price on every rechargeable item? Let's see who takes longer!

[Brinkman]

Originally Posted by Samoht [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sure, let me just find one of your posts talking about the price change on the rez stick...

While we're waiting, were you able to prove that they raised the price on every rechargeable item? Let's see who takes longer!

I dont have to prove that, as I never stated that they raised the prices on all rechareable items. I simply said maybe they raised the prices to create a plat sync. YOU are the one assuming and insisting that in order for that to be true, all rechargeable items would have had their prices changed. You need to read entire posts.

Here read it again

Originally Posted by Brinkman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For all we know, they truely didnt have a fix untill october 2003. And the reason for not maxing the recharge cost could have been many things, maybe they decided to make it a temporary plat sync, using one bug to cancel out other bugs ( that procuded too much plat ). Until they found said fix.

[Brinkman]

So here is my recap:

The opinions:

In my personal opinion, using common sense, that vendor recharging was not intentionally put in the the game. To me, the way its done just screams bug/exploit.

I feel that VI/SoE didnt have a fix for this, either in coding restrictions, or memory restrictions ( remember this code was written in 1997/1998).

I feel that leaving vendor recharging on P99 will be a detriment to the server. I feel it will lead to more people taking advantage of potential exploits. Leading to more dev time investigating, debating and fixing not yet forseen problems in the future. A broad 1 time sweep of this problem will solve future occurences.

I feel there should be no difference in trivializing content with an exploit, or by any other means, whether it makes killing a raid target trivial or killing an orc pawn trivial or anything inbetween. Its still an exploit, or something not intended.

I feel the balance of these charged items are broken with vendor recharging, they offer longterm rewards for minimal investment, and almost no reinvestment. They are able to be used liberally because they can be recharged, which changes how they are used. I.E. emergency situations vs everyday usage of abilities not normally granted to certain classes.

The Facts:

Vendor recharging items is a classic function, it was not removed until October 9, 2003.

I have never claimed it wasnt classic.

Many Classic functions have been removed from p99 in the past for many reasons. Some of which fall under Bugs/exploits that VI/Soe fixed well after luclin release, and some that VI/SoE never fixed.

Changing this function will have a major impact on the game, both positive and negative.