Shadow knight aggro

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody is overestimating the opportunity cost of a missed taunt. There’s simply no reason to spam it. Sks don’t need to do much, it’s not hard to taunt manually, and as you pointed out it gives you the benefit of the first taunt success rate being higher. Given you have claimed root rotting many mobs on a shaman is a viable strategy to increase dps which requires far more APM and concentration, you are clearly capable of taunting manually as well instead of lazily spamming it with a hotkey.

Therefore we can conclude you have agreed you are capable of taunting manually, and since it is superior there is no reason to spam taunt.

Thank you for admitting defeat!

Simply claiming victory without merit is meaningless.

There are reasons to spam taunt, you just want to ignore them for no sensible reason. I prefer to give people all relevant information and let them decide what to do. Hiding information isn't helping anybody.

Snaggles never uses taunt at all. In his case, spamming taunt will give him a higher chance of successfully taunting, while also freeing up his focus. 8.3% is better than 0%. Clearly he doesn't want to press taunt for whatever reason, so this is a good middle ground for a user like that. Adding taunt to a macro you are already spamming (if you have one) takes zero effort. For players that don't press taunt and have a spamable macro, taunt spam is a method to increase agro generation for free, without changing existing habits. Something is better than nothing, and some people may not have realized they could do this.

You could claim that any player who doesn't use taunt is playing incorrectly. But at the end of the day it's the player's choice as to what they do. Give them the information, and they'll figure out what works best for them.

I am not sure why you are so hostile towards discussions. It is very strange.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Simply claiming victory without merit is meaningless.

There are reasons to spam taunt, you just want to ignore them for no sensible reason. I prefer to give people all relevant information and let them decide what to do. Hiding information isn't helping anybody.

Snaggles never uses taunt at all. In his case, spamming taunt will give him a higher chance of successfully taunting, while also freeing up his focus. Clearly he doesn't want to press taunt for whatever reason, so this is a good middle ground for a user like that.

I am not sure why you are so hostile towards discussions. It is very strange.

The fact that snaggles chooses not to press taunt is irrelevant. I’m not sure why you’re using his scenario as last ditch effort for your logic. We are talking about class optimal strategy, not what one specific player chooses to do.

The simple fact remains as a tank you should be utilizing your tools to the best of your classes ability. There’s simply no reason to spam taunt. And you yourself have admitted it’s not hard to meet the concentration level needed to manual taunt.

I am sorry you are wrong and have to come at me and call me hostile and such, it’s quite childish and unfortunately only diminishes your reputation.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’ve never said taunt is necessary. As Danth mentioned it’s free and might save a bit of mana if you aren’t chain casting 40-60m taunt spells (since DC is borked). It also might be quicker than it takes for the spell to land once you react to the flip. Unslowed that might save someone a second combat round. If it’s a Jugg that might be 340 damage.

That’s why the Church of MacroTaunt is openly inviting new followers. Leave your false taunt gods behind you and learn of this new and better thing! Amen.

You don't like Clinging Darkness to save some mana?

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't like Clinging Darkness to save some mana?

It’s not nearly the threat of a stat tap or pre-nerf DC. Probably 1/3 or 1/4th as much. For 20m it’s a great utility spell, for delaying pulls or stopping runners.

[Vivitron]

Originally Posted by Snaggles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s not nearly the threat of a stat tap or pre-nerf DC. Probably 1/3 or 1/4th as much. For 20m it’s a great utility spell, for delaying pulls or stopping runners.

Clinging is however currently the same aggro as a shadow vortex or shroud of hate. (edit: Oh you mentioned stat taps. I've tested it. You get full aggro for "didn't take hold" and "immune to changes in runspeed" too.)

It's too bad about DC. There are patch notes (after our era) about slow first getting moved to disease, then slow having too much aggro and that aggro getting fixed. I assume that's where DC's aggro should be nerfed, and that it's a bug that it's nerfed on p99.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's too bad about DC. There are patch notes (after our era) about slow first getting moved to disease, then slow having too much aggro and that aggro getting fixed. I assume that's where DC's aggro should be nerfed, and that it's a bug that it's nerfed on p99.

It's definitely a bug (or a deliberate out-of-era nerf to the game) because the loss of counter aggro also trivializes aggro from some other spells on other classes that absolutely should not be trivial aggro. Intended or not, we have to deal with it until such a time as it's changed. For now, DC's junk. Main reason you might not use Clinging on a charm pet is if you don't want the pet dotted (it can be annoying at times) but Clinging has a short enough duration that's usually not a problem. It was more annoying with DC's long duration.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Vivitron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Clinging is however currently the same aggro as a shadow vortex or shroud of hate. (edit: Oh you mentioned stat taps. I've tested it. You get full aggro for "didn't take hold" and "immune to changes in runspeed" too.)

It's too bad about DC. There are patch notes (after our era) about slow first getting moved to disease, then slow having too much aggro and that aggro getting fixed. I assume that's where DC's aggro should be nerfed, and that it's a bug that it's nerfed on p99.

I'm basing this only on my own experience trying to rip aggro with ensnare in slot one using a GCD compared to flame lick. Often for general running around I'll have snare up and not flame lick. In one instance it took like 8 snares to peel a HoT mini on to my ranger once the warrior dropped.

I havent done much grouping with my SK on p99. On live Clinging was my workhorse and seemed to be ok. It's technically just not nearly the hit that an AC debuff is like Shadow Vortex. Even for a warrior that uses proc weapons limited to the "max threshold" the snare whip proc is rather low compared to say a Frostbringer. This is likely a case for people to just gauge as they go, I really doubt most sks can keep aggro primarily using Clinging off a geared rogue at 60. Good to have a few big spell taunts on the bar just incase you need them.

Snare/root component is pretty low aggro, the damage is basically threat if it lands. For some reason ac/attk taps or debuffs, slows, blinds, poison counters, if cast all get you to a pretty high level of hate. Formerly disease counters too. It's also why spells like druid swarm or necro/sk blood dots are low threat...they are basically the darkness line w/o the snare component.

[Naethyn]

Warriors over there trying to figure out if they should be punching between swings while shadowknights are debating if they should press taunt.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Naethyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Warriors over there trying to figure out if they should be punching between swings while shadowknights are debating if they should press taunt.

It's wild for sure. Taunt is pretty simple to understand. I am not sure why people are so unwilling to press their taunt buttons. It's ok if one gets wasted here and there.

[Guesty07]

Let's go back to that 8.33% chance, that stuff had me rolling