Request for a different policy on (game-changing) specific item camps

[Mcbard]

This thread was started by a communist and is full of pinkos.

Reported all of you sympathizers to the F.B.I. goodluck!

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey;

No more greedy than showing up and saying 'okay GTFO, my turn to have these loots!!!!"

We all had the same opportunity to obtain and hold the camp. We all made different choices about how to pursue those opportunities on Kunark launch night. If your ass was not heading directly for whatever camp you're talking about wanting now the second Kunark launched, with whatever friends you needed to hold the camp as long as it took to make sure they all got hooked up, then you had other priorities that night and you need to accept the opportunity costs of the choices you made, just like the rest of us have to.

yeah guided by information you not suppose to even have, since in 99 no one knew what was going to drop, much less where.
You should consider playing on a PvP99 when it comes out- that's where "the might is right" argument goes without questioning.

Originally Posted by Mcbard [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread was started by a communist and is full of pinkos.

Reported all of you sympathizers to the F.B.I. goodluck!

someone needs to take a Political Science 101... otherwise I can just easily call you a fascist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Kika Maslyaka [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

yeah guided by information you not suppose to even have, since in 99 no one knew what was going to drop, much less where.

Irrelevant. Again, we all had equal opportunity to research the 11-year-old info, and equal opportunity to plan and execute accordingly on launch night. That is where the equality ended, and the actual 'ability to implement the plan' came into play.

There's nothing about might-makes-right about it. If you want the camp you could go sit there and wait for whoever is there to F up and leave the camp unattended. You choose not to. You could camp out your character at the camp with some friends when you hear the server is going down to attempt to beat others to claiming the camp upon logging in. You choose not to. Hell, you could app to one of the guilds holding down the camp, help them out, and be the recipient of the loot when it drops, and then promptly gate and de-guild. Again, you choose not to.

Instead, in lieu of actually putting in the aforementioned effort to get the things you want, you'd rather just stroll up and decide it's your turn to have it. Now who's seemingly greedy?

It's all dependent on your own perspective I suppose.

[Rais]

If anything I would he happy with the 20 mins to reclaim camp rule gone. Servers coming down or anything like that was just like eq live. There was never any rule set to reclaim a camp.

I didn't even know about this rule till kunark. I despise holding a camp that isn't for exp.da idol? Hated it. Thex mallet quest? Hated it. Cos/locket? Hated it.

It gods/dragons are fair game after a server patch or crash,so should camps. If you can't log in faster than the other guy running for whateve camp,though shit. I've had camps lost because of this,and no knowing this 20min rule. If I'm gone from camp it should be treated as a open door mob and who ever gets ,wins.

[mwatt]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Irrelevant. Again, we all had equal opportunity to research the 11-year-old info, and equal opportunity to plan and execute accordingly on launch night. That is where the equality ended, and the actual 'ability to implement the plan' came into play.

There's nothing about might-makes-right about it. If you want the camp you could go sit there and wait for whoever is there to F up and leave the camp unattended. You choose not to. You could camp out your character at the camp with some friends when you hear the server is going down to attempt to beat others to claiming the camp upon logging in. You choose not to. Hell, you could app to one of the guilds holding down the camp, help them out, and be the recipient of the loot when it drops, and then promptly gate and de-guild. Again, you choose not to.

Instead, in lieu of actually putting in the aforementioned effort to get the things you want, you'd rather just stroll up and decide it's your turn to have it. Now who's seemingly greedy?

It's all dependent on your own perspective I suppose.

Just because one can do somethng, doesn't mean one should.

There is indeed an element of might makes right here. When a group of people band together into a force strong enough and sustained enough to effectively deny other individuals or groups the opportunity to access a resource, I'd call it might makes right.

You give several examples of how "denied" individuals might work around the restrictions imposed by the "mighty". These are good ideas, but they don't have bearing on the argument of whether or not the "lock down" behaviors we are discussing are reasonable.

[Shiftin]

You guys should really stop glossing over the distinction between intentionally denying people something and that being a biproduct of an extremely limited resource being consumed for a very direct benefit.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by mwatt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just because one can do somethng, doesn't mean one should.

There is indeed an element of might makes right here. When a group of people band together into a force strong enough and sustained enough to effectively deny other individuals or groups the opportunity to access a resource, I'd call it might makes right.

You give several examples of how "denied" individuals might work around the restrictions imposed by the "mighty". These are good ideas, but they don't have bearing on the argument of whether or not the "lock down" behaviors we are discussing are reasonable.

As I said before, two completely different games are being played here. The casual gamers don't have the drive or time that the power gamers do, so they cannot compete on the same level. All they can do is try to twist the rules in their favor. The power gamers believe that loot is distributed according to drive/time, so they play towards that end, competing with other like-minded players, meanwhile the casuals are caught in the crossfire.

One style of play is not more right than the other.

All it takes is one or two people to catch a guild with their pants down, leaving a camp unattended. That has nothing to do with might, and everything to do with persistence.

[Dr4z3r]

Originally Posted by Shiftin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You guys should really stop glossing over the distinction between intentionally denying people something and that being a biproduct of an extremely limited resource being consumed for a very direct benefit.

But I wanted to take it personally! :*(

[Serin]

I've seen this from both perspectives.. Personally, I believe the whole thing could be solved by just a little consideration for other people.. The fact is I've passed off camps to other people and I've passed on camps to guildies/friends.

If you want a more realistic perspective think of it this way. You're in line at a concert to try to get tickets and there's a limit of 2 per person. You walk up and see 2 people in front of you and realize there's a supply of about 10 front row tickets.. So, you measure your odds and say "Okay, this is a pretty good situation.. I still have a shot at front row tickets, and the line should be fairly short" An hour later the guy at the front of the line sees a friend and says "HAI MAN How's It Goin?!" the other guy says "Oh, Hey.. Yeah.. I just woke up. Guess I wasn't the first person here.. you mind if i just stand behind you?" and the other guy says "Oh, hell yeah.. That's fine dude.." In another hour the same thing happens, and again, and again, and again..

How would you react, would you happily chew on the crap sandwich? or would you speak out and say something?

That's the situation that the people who started this post are frustrated with. It's not the fact that your guild want's <Insert contested item name here>, cause most people could give a crap. It's that when they walk up there's 4 people at a camp and every time one person gets their item, they leave and 1-2 more people show up and jump right in front of the people who have been sitting there waiting patiently for 3 hours for the 2 people they originally saw to get their fill.

Now for the solution.. Like I said, a little consideration would help a lot. If you see someone sitting there waiting and it's a guild camp.. You might say

"Hey, I'm going to be here for another 3-4 hours and I've already promised the camp to a few guildies after that and I've got no idea how long they'll be on but they're usually online pretty late.. So, if you want to wait I'll warn you.. It'll be at least 8 hours."

Or!

You could do what I do.. And if someone's actually sitting with me waiting for the camp and they're there, at keyboard, and ready to jump.. They get it when I'm done.. Why? you ask. Because the person who's not sitting there at the camp isn't showing any dedication and is pretty much just flat out asking for a camp/loot handed to them on a silver platter just because they have a tag under their name that matches yours. If I'm taking 6 hours out of my life to camp some ridiculously rare spawn and instead of helping me they decide that they have better things to do and want to exp instead of sitting with me and helping, and then ask "Hey, can you just tell me when you're about to leave?"

As I said, a little consideration goes a long way.. Just take this as my whole contribution to this siituation..

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Serin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You could do what I do.. And if someone's actually sitting with me waiting for the camp and they're there, at keyboard, and ready to jump.. They get it when I'm done.. Why? you ask. Because the person who's not sitting there at the camp isn't showing any dedication and is pretty much just flat out asking for a camp/loot handed to them on a silver platter just because they have a tag under their name that matches yours.

But that doesn't get your guild geared up for X zone or Y encounter. And that's the difference between a power gamer mindset "gotta get the guild keyed for Howling Stones!" and a casual gamer mindset "screw my guildmates, they ain't here... this guy is. I don't care if my guild gets into Howling Stones more quickly."

To tweak your analogy a bit:

There is a line at a concert to try to get tickets. There is no limit. The more of your group of friends gets in, the better concerts you can all get into later on down the line.

You orchestrate with your friends some ingenious plan to coordinate a bunch of people and schedules to make sure you are there first.

You get there first and eventually there are people waiting behind you. These people cannot help you get into better concerts later on down the line. Some of your group of friends show up, you let them in line in front of you so they can get tickets, too, because that benefits your entire group of friends.

The guys waiting behind you can get their tickets later. If they wanted tickets now, they should have came up with their own plan to get there first.