Someone Translate this wall of text from Omni

[BlownAway]

Good Competition there in TOV so far tonight boys! 100+ person kills VS NO ONE AT ALL! We really are starting to come around to all your "the competition is the fun part"

[Legidias]

Tag along? All you have to do is zone into ToV and hide behind a brazier for 2 hours.

[Hibbs]

Originally Posted by Legidias [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Tag along? All you have to do is zone into ToV and hide behind a brazier for 2 hours.

LOL

[aaezil]

tagging along on a raid where a zerg guild of 300 lawn mowers down mobs in the most un-classic way imaginable is probably the worst thing i could ever imagine

[tyrant49333]

Alot of whiners here who haven't put in the work to learn end game strats, don't practice to be competitive, don't put in the effort to track or FTE, don't farm the appropriate raid items to be competitive, don't study the success and failure of other guilds strategies, don't fraps and review their own mistakes, want to get free welfare pixels. Bunch of Bernie Sanders fans we got here

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by tyrant49333 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Alot of whiners here who haven't put in the work to learn end game strats, don't practice to be competitive, don't put in the effort to track or FTE, don't farm the appropriate raid items to be competitive, don't study the success and failure of other guilds strategies, don't fraps and review their own mistakes, want to get free welfare pixels. Bunch of Bernie Sanders fans we got here

In a 100-person raid, there are probably about 20 people who actually do that, and 80 others who just log in, get to the zone, stand at the zone-in, and wait to be told to press attack or cast their spells, and in what order... so do those 80 earn their loot or are they just riding coattails? Lets be real now.

[Baylan295]

Originally Posted by tyrant49333 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Alot of whiners here who haven't put in the work to learn end game strats, don't practice to be competitive, don't put in the effort to track or FTE, don't farm the appropriate raid items to be competitive, don't study the success and failure of other guilds strategies, don't fraps and review their own mistakes, want to get free welfare pixels. Bunch of Bernie Sanders fans we got here

The false assumption by you and most everyone in the top tier endgame raiding is that pixels should be earned in the manner you’re describing.

Fundamentally, AM pushes the envelope and rules more than any other guild. In the absence of a real GM to actually draw the line on rules interpretations, this will only get worse.

Just ask AG’s leadership about it.

[Mead]

Originally Posted by YendorLootmonkey [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In a 100-person raid, there are probably about 20 people who actually do that, and 80 others who just log in, get to the zone, stand at the zone-in, and wait to be told to press attack or cast their spells, and in what order... so do those 80 earn their loot or are they just riding coattails? Lets be real now.

Originally Posted by Baylan295 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The false assumption by you and most everyone in the top tier endgame raiding is that pixels should be earned in the manner you’re describing.

Fundamentally, AM pushes the envelope and rules more than any other guild. In the absence of a real GM to actually draw the line on rules interpretations, this will only get worse.

Just ask AG’s leadership about it.

You can try to twist it any way you want but he's right. You guys want free pixels, and hopefully are never going to get them. Be happy with the mom and pop guild targets you can acquire or put in more work.

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by Mead [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can try to twist it any way you want but he's right. You guys want free pixels, and hopefully are never going to get them. Be happy with the mom and pop guild targets you can acquire or put in more work.

Nice re-direct.

This is the mantra of the hardcore: "You are hopefully never going to get free pixels. Nevermind the fact that about 80% of our raid force pretty much gets free pixels. Because, uh, time and effort."

Again, what work is 80% of the raid force doing besides getting to a zone and pushing buttons when told? Please explain how they are "putting in the work to get loot"? Oh, that's right... you can't, as many times as you would love to dismiss the hypocrisy pointed out here.

I will concede knowing how the raid encounter works and communicating what needs to be done and when, tracking, FTE/pulling, and camping raid ez-mode trinkets can all be considered work. I gaurantee not everyone in the raid is putting in that work. Yet every warm body there earns DKP to bid on loot that they essentially got for showing up and pressing some buttons.

But keep kidding yourself.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Champion_Standing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We could argue this logic with every desirable camp in the game. Why should Tommy Tentwinks get to farm plat all day long when poor Jimmy the elf can't even buy his spells?

I see this as you basically admitting you've lost the argument, that rotations are better for the server, and the only way you can win it back is to change the argument to somehow be about Tommy Tentwinks. Please don't: we're talking about raid encounters only here, and if you can't see a meaningful difference between raid encounters and the rest of the game then I think you're being deliberately obtuse. In other words:

Originally Posted by Champion_Standing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We can't ONLY apply this philosophy to the best mobs in the game, that kind of seems silly to me.

Yes, we absolutely can: the server has a long history of different rules/philosophy for raiders! Like, pretty much the entire history of the server there's been different raid rules (certainly as long as I've been here). For that entire time you've never cared that raids are different from normal play, and now all of the sudden you do?

Originally Posted by Champion_Standing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They aren't stressing out about AM, AG and Core are getting too many dragons, they're stressing out cuz they can never get the sisters camp in lfay or because they can't log in after work and get into a group without waiting on a list.

Now you're ignoring what I've said. I made it very clear that there are three groups of players on this server. Not two (hard-working top-end guilds and lazy everyone else), but three (people who can raid dragons and play P99's non-EQ artificial raid game well, people who can raid dragons and don't or won't, and people who can't raid dragons). Stop trying to make this about people who can't raid dragons.

Originally Posted by Champion_Standing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The "competition" exists at every level in EQ, from lvl 10 solo camps to lvl 60 raid zones.

Yeah, we have a brutal PvP competition for scout right? And when someone wants someone else's camp, they duke it out to see who competes better for the camp?

No? We have a server with rules designed to share content between players [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Champion_Standing [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact is that if a rotation is implemented in ToV it has absolutely nothing to do with sharing or giving players a chance to experience classic EQ.

Says you, with no basis whatsoever. Somehow I think all the players that would get to see dragons for the first time on this server would disagree.