If you believe in god, you're an idiot...

[chtulu]

Originally Posted by skulldudes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

arguing about religion, or lack thereof, is like making jokes about how arguing on the internet is like the special olympics.

old and tired.

so was arguing woman's suffrage.

[skulldudes]

Originally Posted by chtulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so was arguing woman's suffrage.

hahahahahaha

you can't be real

you're fucking with me

[chtulu]

Originally Posted by skulldudes [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

hahahahahaha

you can't be real

you're fucking with me

Religion promoted women as objects of man. Also, blacks were inferior and anyone with dark skin were born from satan.

[skulldudes]

Originally Posted by chtulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Religion promoted women as objects of man. Also, blacks were inferior and anyone with dark skin were born from satan.

WHAT? NO, I'VE NEVER HEARD OF SUCH THINGS, THAT'S IMPOSSIBLE? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by chtulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Religion promoted women as objects of man. Also, blacks were inferior and anyone with dark skin were born from satan.

You have got to be kidding me.

Women as objects of man has existed for just about as long as mankind has existed. In fact, there are probably more than a few zoologists that would argue male ownership of woman originated in the animal kingdom, before man even existed.

Ditto for prejudice against blacks -- but don't limit it to blacks. Prejudice against basically every ethnic group but your own was exceptionally prevalent long before organized religion existed. Again, it could be argued that this has roots in the animal kingdom.

You're blaming religion for prejudices and viewpoints that existed literally thousands and thousands of years before the birth of organized religion, and have continued to exist independently of religion. Hell, this stuff existed before the birth of organized society. Male ownership of woman is a defining trait of dozens of African tribes to this very day. They're not exactly Judeo-Christian.

[Daldolma]

Judaism is most certainly *not* the oldest form of anti-gay propaganda. Your ignorance on the matter is showing, and that's not meant as an insult. It's not necessarily common knowledge, I'm simply informing you. The first Jewish anti-gay laws were recorded in the 6th century BC. Assyrians had anti-gay laws recorded in the 11th century BC. And it's highly likely that there was severe persecution against homosexuals in the centuries predating the Assyrian laws, but obviously, the recording of those eras is spotty -- particularly in niche areas like social response to homosexuality. Anti-homosexual sentiment was *not* created by any church or any religion. Neither was male chauvinism. Both were "grandfathered in", if you will.

And if you truly believe that organized religion is brainwashing the American masses into adherence, then why is it that so many religious edicts are flatly ignored? What makes the Church so effective at indoctrinating anti-gay sentiment, while they fail miserably at preventing the use of condoms? Why do so many people oppose abortion, while so many gladly partake in pre-marital sex? The fact is, the Church isn't brainwashing anyone. People take the Bible and use it to confirm their prior-held beliefs, whether or not that's what the Bible actually says. The vast majority of NRA supporters are religious Christians. Do you think Jesus would have been pro-automatic weaponry for the masses? I'm guessing no.

Religion is a red herring. It's about ignorance and dogma. Some people use religion, some people use the Constitution, some people use nationalism. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao managed to do everything you accuse religion of doing -- without religion.

[chtulu]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Judaism is most certainly *not* the oldest form of anti-gay propaganda. Your ignorance on the matter is showing, and that's not meant as an insult. It's not necessarily common knowledge, I'm simply informing you. The first Jewish anti-gay laws were recorded in the 6th century BC. Assyrians had anti-gay laws recorded in the 11th century BC. And it's highly likely that there was severe persecution against homosexuals in the centuries predating the Assyrian laws, but obviously, the recording of those eras is spotty -- particularly in niche areas like social response to homosexuality. Anti-homosexual sentiment was *not* created by any church or any religion. Neither was male chauvinism. Both were "grandfathered in", if you will.

And if you truly believe that organized religion is brainwashing the American masses into adherence, then why is it that so many religious edicts are flatly ignored? What makes the Church so effective at indoctrinating anti-gay sentiment, while they fail miserably at preventing the use of condoms? Why do so many people oppose abortion, while so many gladly partake in pre-marital sex? The fact is, the Church isn't brainwashing anyone. People take the Bible and use it to confirm their prior-held beliefs, whether or not that's what the Bible actually says. The vast majority of NRA supporters are religious Christians. Do you think Jesus would have been pro-automatic weaponry for the masses? I'm guessing no.

Religion is a red herring. It's about ignorance and dogma. Some people use religion, some people use the Constitution, some people use nationalism. Hitler, Stalin, and Mao managed to do everything you accuse religion of doing -- without religion.

Exactly, thank you for proving my point. Without religion, that would be one less reason to have an excuse for bigotry and intolerance. It's just a visage to cover pure and simple, hate for anything different then the opinions of the movers and shakers in the churches.

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by chtulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly, thank you for proving my point. Without religion, that would be one less reason to have an excuse for bigotry and intolerance. It's just a visage to cover pure and simple, hate for anything different then the opinions of the movers and shakers in the churches.

I think you're missing the point. The bigotry and intolerance wouldn't dissipate with the removal of religion. It would just take on some new manifestation. Ironically, the argument against homosexuality would probably jump to scientific dogma. It's already started. Something along the lines of, "homosexuality doesn't promote reproduction, thus doesn't contribute to evolution, and ultimately hurts the species".

It's a prejudice that has existed for literally thousands of years. It's not going away by removing an institution that is, at a minimum, half a thousand years younger. Combating prejudice against homosexuals, much like combating racial, religious, and gender-based prejudice, relies almost entirely upon education. Again, the problem is ignorance -- not religion.

[chtulu]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you're missing the point. The bigotry and intolerance wouldn't dissipate with the removal of religion. It would just take on some new manifestation. Ironically, the argument against homosexuality would probably jump to scientific dogma. It's already started. Something along the lines of, "homosexuality doesn't promote reproduction, thus doesn't contribute to evolution, and ultimately hurts the species".

It's a prejudice that has existed for literally thousands of years. It's not going away by removing an institution that is, at a minimum, half a thousand years younger. Combating prejudice against homosexuals, much like combating racial, religious, and gender-based prejudice, relies almost entirely upon education. Again, the problem is ignorance -- not religion.

Religion promotes education against all those things. Science doesn't perverse it's way into civil rights, unless you can give me an example?

[Daldolma]

Originally Posted by chtulu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Religion promotes education against all those things. Science doesn't perverse it's way into civil rights, unless you can give me an example?

Of course it does. The Holocaust was a prime example -- it was meant as a racial cleansing. They were trying to eliminate genetic pollution, for lack of a better term. That's based on science, just as much as anti-homosexual sentiment is based on religion. Both are completely convoluted misinterpretations, used by bigots with agendas to confirm and legitimize their own prejudices.