Real Question here

[iruinedyourday]

Just make a mob spawn on rotation at an exact time so we can all have lives outside of this fucking game ffs

[Skydash]

What exactly is the argument against everything (VP included to those with means) being Rotated?

Rotate all mobs, evenly and fairly.

Why do these guilds get special treatment?

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Skydash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What exactly is the argument against everything (VP included to those with means) being Rotated?

Rotate all mobs, evenly and fairly.

Why do these guilds get special treatment?

Their imaginary things wouldn't be special to them if everyone had them.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Skydash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What exactly is the argument against everything (VP included to those with means) being Rotated?

Rotate all mobs, evenly and fairly.

Why do these guilds get special treatment?

A decision was made by the server operators that guilds willing to devote more time to the game should be commensurately rewarded. They felt that this created a more classic environment for the server. However, they also have recognized that some servers did have rotations and other protected raiding environments, albeit in a minority, so they have also taken measures to protect and promote both environments despite their incompatibility. Two servers in one, essentially.

[toolshed]

Originally Posted by Skydash [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What exactly is the argument against everything (VP included to those with means) being Rotated?

Rotate all mobs, evenly and fairly.

Why do these guilds get special treatment?

You give the Class C guilds their mobs, or they will take everything for themselves.

It's a lot like the mafia. You pay 'insurance' so you have the privilege of not getting your shit pushed in.

The Class R guilds 'pay' the Class C guilds with VP so they can have the privilege of having random dragon world spawns

[Derubael]

Obviously this is going into RnF. I was scrolling back through the last 50 or so posts and it seems to have more or less become a flame war. I'll address these two points to clarify my post, then move on and hope someone listens:

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not to throw you under the bus but when I had a 1 on 1 with Sirken shortly after Genocidal Tendencies went full retard it was very clear to both of us and we agreed that the FFA cycle has been a complete failure from it's intended purpose. That was months ago. It's relatively disingenuous to say now months later "oh, we thought everyone was happy with things" when if you read these boards daily you'll see a completely different picture.

The rules aren't overly complicated. The only guild that couldn't figure it out imploded immediately because their leadership was some of the dumbest people to grace this server. The area that is most contentious is the FFA mobs that go late in window when no other potential spawns are available. That creates a bottleneck where all the stupid neckbeard shit happens. I'd expect if you removed the FFA cycle class C would QQ because they're so used to running those sets of mobs though.

We aren't able to read every forum thread that pops up in server chat or RnF regarding the raid scene. In particular, I was referring to server administration, who read even less than Sirken and I do. If you want change, it needs to be put in the raid forum with clear titles and specifically addressed points backed by multiple guilds. It's great to make 20 posts in some randomly titled server chat thread where you talk about what you'd personally like to see modified, but it's likely that won't even be seen, let alone taken seriously. PM's will be similarly ineffectual for about the same reason.

We put up the raid discussion forum for a number of reasons, one of which was to create a funnel to connect the senior staff with the common-man in the various raid guilds across the server. It's an easy, highly visible, and thankfully highly moderated method of mass communication from you to us. The idea being that the guild reps with the privilege of posting there have an obligation and a responsibility to represent not their own personal opinions, but the opinions of their guilds as a whole. It's incredibly important that everyone given the ability to post there speak with the voice of everyone in their guild without letting their own personal feelings sway their tone. This isn't aimed at you, chest, it's a reminder to everyone who has access to post there that they have a duty to their respective guilds to share the viewpoint of their guild as a whole.

Use it for it's intended purpose, and spend time talking with your respective guilds to get a firm understanding of what's desired. Put those thoughts into a forum post outlining the message you feel they wish to convey, and have everyone take a look to be sure you've gotten the correct tone, message, and meaning. Some of you may be surprised to find out how your members feel about the raid scene, and where the guild as a whole feels change is needed. Once that post has been edited to a majority's satisfaction, bring it to raid discussion. Find out where everyone agrees/disagrees. And don't just assume you already know - until you actually ask, you're doing a disservice to those who rely on you to lead.

I'm going to be blunt when I say this, but I want to emphasize the point. We don't give a single fuck about forum user Ella`Ella's opinion on the raid scene. But when he goes to the raid forum, we assume he's speaking with the voice of TMO as a whole, and that's something we do care about. The same goes for chest and BDA, or Nemce and AG. There simply isn't enough time for us as a staff to read through the thoughts and opinions of hundreds of forum users to gauge what people feel needs to be changed. We need you to do it for us in the proper place in a clear, concise way. Only then will your cries, screams, and occasional moan from Cucumbers be heard.

I didn't make my previous post out of ignorance or false information, and I'm not going to go into specifics about it's meaning because I'm not interested in sharing internal discussions among the senior staff, but I'm telling you very truthfully that if you want something to happen, that's the place it needs to be addressed, or it won't get addressed at all.

Yes, the FFA class has thus far been largely unsuccessful in it's intended purpose. I'm actually shocked that no class R guilds have moved to Class C, if for no other reason than to clean house on repop day when IB and TMO are locked in VP together. Maybe I'm misinformed, but I thought that guilds on the rotation all ended up with 2-3 mobs a piece each month (do some get more than others...? is there a class system within class r that dictates mob counts? I've kept my head in the sand for fear of seeing/hearing something I don't like and imploding into a black hole), which would mean that any Class R guild that snuck up to C would be practically guaranteed 8 Class C mobs a month (4 repops * 2 bag limit = 8, and I don't see either IB or TMO leaving PD to go fight over a Class C Inny). Have I completely lost it or is this a missed opportunity?

That being said, I don't think we're ready to completely do away with the "FFA" designation just yet (Rogean did take all that time to program in pretty green letters for it on raid.php), but maybe a modification is needed - higher bag limits, altered restriction timers, whatever - to turn "FFA" into a Class R-C training ground. Class R could work out a training wheel system for the guilds who may want to practice for Class C, or those who just want "class c-lite" - competing, but with guilds who play a little nicer than the die-hards in class C. Recent behavior seems to suggest there's at least some interest in this, if it's done properly. Think 18th century gentleman's duels instead of mad max beyond the thunderdome.

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also that part is just absurd. The entry point for this entire thing is Class R and that's been a model system. Only two guilds have utterly failed in class R (Dolj and GT) and it was only because they didn't want to honor the rotation system that 10 other guilds put in place and have maintained for months without issue.

MC is currently growing as has been welcomed to the rotation and as they grow they'll continue to be added to new rotation lists as they feel they're ready. Harmony was on the lists until they fell apart, Omni was welcomed and are thriving, even Supremacy and KWSN were approached but never mustered the force to kill raid targets.

Class C is the problem. They've always been the problem. Working with TMO and IB is like pulling fucking teeth. Anytime class C is involved in anything the entire situation usually turns to shit. I get it, they want pixels and they'll do anything to get them, that's their playstyle, but that mentality is only favored by 10-15% of the server and unfortunately that minority is allowed to dictate raid progression for the other 10+ guilds.

I have to completely disagree here, because I am blessed with the knowledge that comes from being an attentive and curious CSR. With my powers of omnipotence, I am able to hear the cries of nublets everywhere who cry in frustration at all the rules and their stipulations and exceptions. If I had a dime for every-time we've been asked to clarify this rule or affirm that interpretation, I'd retire to a small island in the pacific and name it Cabilis. Just glancing through my FAQ in the raid forum should highlight part of this problem - for a completely new guild who has never raided here, and may have little or no raiding experience in EQ, the plethora of rules, special circumstances, and odd exceptions can be bewildering. And that doesn't take into account the vague and somewhat misleading wording of the raid rules themselves - a product of the evolution of that rule-set, but an issue nonetheless.

You have the advantage of having been here from the beginning, knowing how everything used to work and watching as it's evolved over time. Your guild receives the benefit of that experience. But not everyone has that same privilege, and I can say definitively that this has caused problems - and even created outright hostile situations that could have been avoided - since the changes to the raid scene were made. This isn't an isolated incident, but something that has happened again and again. I have no desire to do away with all the rules that we pushed hard to implement in the first place. But I do think they need to be reviewed and simplified, or in some cases done away with completely.

In regards to saying Class C is the problem, I think that's a matter of perspective, and highly subjective. What is the problem with the raid scene right now? Different people are going to give wildly different answers - even within the same guild. I'm not going to argue because the simple answer is our opinions will always differ, but I think blaming all the problems of the raid scene on these two guilds is a narrow and biased answer - formulated by a long history of grievances (that aren't without merit, to be sure) - that attempts to fix the problem by smashing it with a hammer rather than taking the time to find a more complete solution.

This post went on for far too long, especially considering I didn't read all the posts after I made mine this morning - there would have likely been many more talking points had I looked at all the responses that didn't devolve into barely cohesive ranting (yes, I'm looking at you two, and no, don't you dare try the "but he started it" bs. go to your corners or I'll have sirken take away your dessert). The two big things I want to convey are universal, though, and chests posts' made an excellent segue into restating them.

The rules as they stand have plenty of room for improvement, and some aren't necessary at all. A more cohesive and simple ruleset would benefit everyone, particularly people brand new to the raid scene, and no - listing every variable for every situation so that people can look them up on the fly is not a viable alternative. There is such a thing as too much regulation and we have most definitely reached that point here on Project 1999. Lastly, if you're a raid forum person, talk to your guild, find out what they want, and bring it to us in the raid forum. Your guild members are counting on you to represent their hopes, dreams, and aspirations, so stop fucking that up by arguing in server chat and rnf all the time, and instead put that energy into some positive discussion where it really belongs.

<3 you all because you're easier to handle than red, even if that means you're a little less fun. Also some of you will actually read this post in it's entirety before starting to calling me stupid, rather than jumping straight to the flaming part. Good luck with your ideas, and let your voice be heard.

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(diddy welcomes you to rnf)

[Gimp]

Please no on 96 hour windows again.

We just need a patch to get mob respawns off of the weekends so I can go back to getting hilariously drunk and watching football.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yes, the FFA class has thus far been largely unsuccessful in it's intended purpose. I'm actually shocked that no class R guilds have moved to Class C, if for no other reason than to clean house on repop day when IB and TMO are locked in VP together. Maybe I'm misinformed, but I thought that guilds on the rotation all ended up with 2-3 mobs a piece each month (do some get more than others...? is there a class system within class r that dictates mob counts? I've kept my head in the sand for fear of seeing/hearing something I don't like and imploding into a black hole), which would mean that any Class R guild that snuck up to C would be practically guaranteed 8 Class C mobs a month (4 repops * 2 bag limit = 8, and I don't see either IB or TMO leaving PD to go fight over a Class C Inny). Have I completely lost it or is this a missed opportunity?

No one gets a bigger share in Class R, it's as even as possible. Sneaking up to class C doesn't mean you always get juicy targets when TMO/IB are fighting it out in VP, your class C mobs for the week might be maestro, Gore, and Tal. So juicy. Also staying class R means you don't have to deal with the people in class C which is the better option tbh.

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have to completely disagree here, because I am blessed with the knowledge that comes from being an attentive and curious CSR. With my powers of omnipotence, I am able to hear the cries of nublets everywhere who cry in frustration at all the rules and their stipulations and exceptions. If I had a dime for every-time we've been asked to clarify this rule or affirm that interpretation, I'd retire to a small island in the pacific and name it Cabilis.

who are these people!? There's 10 class R guilds, and each guilds leadership understands the ins and outs of the raid system. That's the starting point for any guild and we don't withhold information. I'm not gonna say that you're full of it but show me some of these completely confused nublets that run to the staff looking for answers.

[Servellious]

Something def needs to be done to spread out the dragon spawns at the very least, only weekend spawns is getting old. The socking is also to much currently timers need to be extended. It's not that hard to have 1 tracker rotate with a bunch of other guildies.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Servellious [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Something def needs to be done to spread out the dragon spawns at the very least, only weekend spawns is getting old. The socking is also to much currently timers need to be extended. It's not that hard to have 1 tracker rotate with a bunch of other guildies.

That's why i said to make it so all FFA mobs spawn simultaneously. Then unless someone really really really wants to fight over some choice mob it won't be an issue.