Re: Raid Situation

[Babayaaga]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Never saw 1 rotation in Classic. And I played 1999-2006 or so.

Neither did I, but our server wasn't as heavily populated as P99 is either, nor did it have the same volume of experience that exists here.

[Aaron]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Never saw 1 rotation in Classic. And I played 1999-2006 or so.

I did.

Point. Counterpoint.

[Rooj]

I don't know why people think there shouldn't be any competition for raid mobs on P99. This is what older MMOs were all about when it came to open world raiding, especially Everquest. Part of that competition is SUPPOSED to come from knowing the TOD. Mobilizing efficiently and quicker than other players is supposed to be a part of the encounter. The obvious problem is that 29374234987 alts are logged off at each raid mob. This wasn't an issue in 1999. This is the kind of thing that we need to be figuring out a fix for.

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Rooj [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know why people think there shouldn't be any competition for raid mobs on P99. This is what older MMOs were all about when it came to open world raiding, especially Everquest. Part of that competition is SUPPOSED to come from knowing the TOD. Mobilizing efficiently and quicker than other players is supposed to be a part of the encounter. The obvious problem is that 29374234987 alts are logged off at each raid mob. This wasn't an issue in 1999. This is the kind of thing that we need to be figuring out a fix for.

Are there really that many people saying there shouldn't be any competition? I don't hear anyone advocating a forced rotation upon everyone on the server, in the same way I hear people advocating more cutthroat hardcore raiding upon people on the server.

The Staff proposal lets each side play their way, with their share of the toys. Competitive guilds get the majority of mobs, including VP to themselves, and casuals get to create their own style, be it friendly competition between one another, or through rotations between one another, which only introduces different challenges of diplomacy and alliance maintenance.

Both styles are classic, but on different servers. The server can be split in a reasonable way to allow both sides to play the style they like. Awesome. I don't see the issue.

[chief]

Everyone seems to think during classic eq every server had a rotation and loot fell out of the sky. This wasn't the case for many servers where 1-3 guilds would kill everything and the only time you got a mob was when a new expansion came out and the 1-3 guilds moved on to that.

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by chief [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone seems to think during classic eq every server had a rotation and loot fell out of the sky. This wasn't the case for many servers where 1-3 guilds would kill everything and the only time you got a mob was when a new expansion came out and the 1-3 guilds moved on to that.

Who? I haven't heard anyone advocating full, forced server wide rotations. The casuals have widely been behind Rogean's plan, as it lets hardcores play their classic style amongst themselves, and casuals play their classic style amongst themselves. While no, not every server was friendly raiding, or rotation based, nor was every server hardcore competition. We can be inclusive to both.

[Babayaaga]

Originally Posted by chief [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone seems to think during classic eq every server had a rotation and loot fell out of the sky. This wasn't the case for many servers where 1-3 guilds would kill everything and the only time you got a mob was when a new expansion came out and the 1-3 guilds moved on to that.

Nobody is asking for loot to fall out of the sky. Everyone wants the thrill of earning it. A rotation is a suggestion that people who have experience raiding here are suggesting as a band-aid fix until more content is delivered with Velious (the true problem).

If you were experiencing the problem first-hand, you would understand the true nature of the problem right now. Your post indicates that you do not.

[Alarti0001]

Originally Posted by chief [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Everyone seems to think during classic eq every server had a rotation and loot fell out of the sky. This wasn't the case for many servers where 1-3 guilds would kill everything and the only time you got a mob was when a new expansion came out and the 1-3 guilds moved on to that.

Rotations were on old content... maybe 1 instance of a rotation on current content and that wasnt until velious (less mob scarcity)

[Hitpoint]

Why are we still talking about this shit? It's all been covered 1000 times from 100 different angles. T1 guilds want their efforts to be rewarded and their raid scene not to be shit on with rotations. T2 guilds want to see and experience content without having to compete for it, park characters, wake up at strange hours, or race to mobs. BDA wants as many free mobs as they can get without having to do anything besides lawyer on the forums, and they will milk this situation until they get it. GMs want their petition queue to be lower.

Okay, we've established all these things. There should be no more discussion about playstyle, or what this server was meant for, or how players should choose to play the game.

How many mobs does BDA need before they agree to a plan?

How many mobs should T1 be forced to give up?

Schedule another meeting and answer these two questions. All that matters is negotiations, so stop fucking wasting your time debating anything else. Don't let Chest waste 15 minutes talking about how toxic the raid scene is and how the only thing that's fair is 50/50. Don't let anyone from T1 talk about the spirit of competition. This shit doesn't matter because neither side will ever agree. Just figure out what each side can live with and let us move on.

And why hasn't a new meeting been scheduled yet? Fuck, we all know from the time you plan one it's going to take everyone like 2-3 days to make sure they can make it. Stop delaying this shit.

[Babayaaga]

Originally Posted by Hitpoint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why are we still talking about this shit? It's all been covered 1000 times from 100 different angles. T1 guilds want their efforts to be rewarded and their raid scene not to be shit on with rotations. T2 guilds want to see and experience content without having to compete for it, park characters, wake up at strange hours, or race to mobs. BDA wants as many free mobs as they can get without having to do anything besides lawyer on the forums, and they will milk this situation until they get it. GMs want their petition queue to be lower.

Okay, we've established all these things. There should be no more discussion about playstyle, or what this server was meant for, or how players should choose to play the game.

How many mobs does BDA need before they agree to a plan?

How many mobs should T1 be forced to give up?

Schedule another meeting and answer these two questions. All that matters is negotiations, so stop fucking wasting your time debating anything else. Don't let Chest waste 15 minutes talking about how toxic the raid scene is and how the only thing that's fair is 50/50. Don't let anyone from T1 talk about the spirit of competition. This shit doesn't matter because neither side will ever agree. Just figure out what each side can live with and let us move on.

And why hasn't a new meeting been scheduled yet? Fuck, we all know from the time you plan one it's going to take everyone like 2-3 days to make sure they can make it. Stop delaying this shit.

Think "loopholes" Hitpoint. Read between the lines. The answer is there.

First Clue: Tier 1 and Tier 2 anything (mobs/guilds) as a classification is folly, because these are volatile variables.

Second Clue: Behaviours of players won't change. An asshole is still an asshole and a flower is still a flower, no matter what rules you apply to them.

Third Clue: Without more content, there still isn't enough to distribute amongst the capability of the entire playerbase.