The Server Wide Suspension will end Monday at 6pm EST

[DrKvothe]

I thought this was an interesting and promising answer to the dilemma. However, I also feel that the Div plan, as well as several others, could have worked just as well or better had the guild leaders been informed that nearly doubling the number of spawns was going to be an option.

The Div plan or Rogean's plan wouldn't have worked with 4 additional monthly repops?

Did we just go through that shit-show for nothing? The goal of this was to civilize raiding in p99, but we all watched our guild leaders get dragged through the mud with the RnF trolls in Server Chat. The forum became the new arena for hateful, often libelous rhetoric comparable to the inexcusable in-game tactics that led us here in the first place.

Thank you for getting the raid scene under control. But understand why some people aren't particularly happy with the way it was done.

[SeruScars]

Originally Posted by DrKvothe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I thought this was an interesting and promising answer to the dilemma. However, I also feel that the Div plan, as well as several others, could have worked just as well or better had the guild leaders been informed that nearly doubling the number of spawns was going to be an option.

The Div plan or Rogean's plan wouldn't have worked with 4 additional monthly repops?

Did we just go through that shit-show for nothing? The goal of this was to civilize raiding in p99, but we all watched our guild leaders get dragged through the mud with the RnF trolls in Server Chat. The forum became the new arena for hateful, often libelous rhetoric comparable to the inexcusable in-game tactics that led us here in the first place.

Thank you for getting the raid scene under control. But understand why some people aren't particularly happy with the way it was done.

You are mistaken. The goal was to decrease petitions.

[Bruman]

Originally Posted by SeruScars [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are mistaken. The goal was to decrease petitions.

That's what Sirken wants. Not what Rogen wants (well, I'm sure he wants that too, but that's not the sole thing). The server staff is not in unanimous agreement about the goals, which is what caused a lot of headache during the discussions.

From Rogean:
http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=131586

It continues to be an aggravating realization among CSR staff that 10% of the server population causes 90% of the problems. We are all for competition, but it needs to be fair competition. We are also all here for the same thing, to experience classic Everquest. The same guild monopolizing raid content for 2 years that they might not even need anymore is ridiculous, just to block other guilds from the chance of gearing up to take on the same end game content.

I was thinking to myself the other day and I came to ask myself.. Are we providing this server to give people the arena to compete to such bitter extremes that it has resorted to taking every absolute measure to be victorious, or are we here to provide a classic Everquest experience for everyone to enjoy?

A lot of you make fun of it in your own terms, but it really does come down to fighting over very old content.

Either way, we're tired of the constant bickering, the training, the ninja looting, and all the other bullshit that's going on. So here's what we're going to do.

Starting today and then evaluated when Velious is released the CSR staff will be keeping track of how the raid guilds are treating eachother. If we do not see a significant improvement in the behavior of the raiding guilds and how they treat eachother, Velious will be released without raid content. To be clear, we want an enjoyable raid scene for everyone, not just one or two guilds. This means working together to figure out a compromise when racing for mobs, and working with smaller guilds to let them have a chance at mobs you don't absolutely need for gearing main characters.

(emphasis mine)

Again - the server staff does not agree on things.

[Argh]

Originally Posted by Bruman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's what Sirken wants. Not what Rogen wants (well, I'm sure he wants that too, but that's not the sole thing). The server staff is not in unanimous agreement about the goals, which is what caused a lot of headache during the discussions.

Again - the server staff does not agree on things.

Originally Posted by Rogean [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Starting today and then evaluated when Velious is released the CSR staff will be keeping track of how the raid guilds are treating eachother. If we do not see a significant improvement in the behavior of the raiding guilds and how they treat eachother, Velious will be released without raid content. To be clear, we want an enjoyable raid scene for everyone, not just one or two guilds. This means working together to figure out a compromise when racing for mobs, and working with smaller guilds to let them have a chance at mobs you don't absolutely need for gearing main characters.

FTFY

[Rhambuk]

Originally Posted by DrKvothe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

but we all watched our guild leaders get dragged through the mud with the RnF trolls in Server Chat.

I don't think anyone was dragged through the mud that didn't lay down in the slop to begin with.

I only saw a few people from tmo/ib/fe who don't give a shitaki mushroom what the forum community thinks, and a couple from bda taken who did get heated unnecessarily but there were several guilds who didn't tarnish there names at all throughout all of this, in my opinion

[Joroz]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Server Wide Suspension will end Monday at 6pm EST

On the first two simulated patchday repops T1 Guilds are limited to VP, Naggy, and Vox, the other 1-2 simulated patchday repops will be FFA, rest of the mobs will be FFA. (that means 3-4 simulated patchday repops every month!)

T1 Guilds are no longer allowed to kill Vox and Naggy, except on simulated patchday repops.

the Guilds will continue their discussions to improve the raid scene here on project 1999, and we will ensure that no one side can try to strong arm or hold any one other side hostage.

Side Rules:

• anyone caught intentionally training at raids eats a perma ban, and their guild eats a four week raid suspension.
  
• we strongly encourage guilds to work out their own disputes before contacting the CSR staff, as you will probably not like our rulings.
  
• respect FTE messages, anyone that ignores FTE and Kill Steals a mob will earn their guild a four week raid suspension.
  
• No guild will have more than two representatives present at any raid mob at any time.
  
• Players will not be allowed to camp out at raid mobs ahead of time to encourage actually racing for targets.
  
• Consider greatly reducing variance if the poopsocking can be curbed by the above rules.
  
• No DA Stalling, period.
  
• A Guild will be considered a Teir 1 Guild by the staff, as soon as it starts competing for dragons within Veeshan's Peak.

Interesting, it's like giving teir1 a sharp sword that they will probably stab themselves with. Here is a bunch more chances to fuck up. we know you will... hope this really gets enforced.

[Nirgon]

I cannot more highly commend the staff for being a part of this compromise and stepping in to ALSO be a part of the solution and provide repop days for the "non-lifer" guilds.

This really is a community wide compromise and I can't say I saw the simulated patch days coming into the picture like this.

A+

[Funkutron5000]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I cannot more highly commend the staff for being a part of this compromise and stepping in to ALSO be a part of the solution and provide repop days for the "non-lifer" guilds.

This really is a community wide compromise and I can't say I saw the simulated patch days coming into the picture like this.

A+

They dropped the 3-4 repops a month thing on us from what seemed like out of the blue. It really threw a wrench into everything.

The good kind of wrench, that when it gets thrown into things it fixes them. Or at least the kind that gives you hope that something might be fixed. It'll be an interesting experiment, if nothing else!

[Uteunayr]

Originally Posted by Nirgon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This really is a community wide compromise and I can't say I saw the simulated patch days coming into the picture like this.

Compromise is defined as an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions. Unless you see the play nice policy as a form of concession, then there were no concessions made by the hardcore guilds in this arrangement.

The question has laid on the distribution of mobs. We have X number, how do those get divvied up among the server guilds? The style championed by FE/TMO, etc., is the one that is more advantageous to them, the FFA system. Other people remember a classic experience of cooperation. So each side has, in their mind, what their ideal classic server is, and what they want from it.

Lets look at what happens now. You have 4 new repops added, the first two go to casuals. So, before this system, there were X mobs, and now there are X + Y mobs. The hardcores still get X mobs with the same level they did before, but they also get 1/2 Y. So, their total is X + 1/2 Y, meanwhile casuals go from 0 to 1/2 Y, without getting a share of X.

This isn't a compromise. This was a gain for the hardcore raiders more than anything. If a casual guild wants to do anything but go along for these 2 repops (which should last, what, 4 to 6 hours if you count both together, depending on how long it takes?), they are still required to play on the hardcore raider's terms.

This is in no way even close to concessions on both sides, this is casuals accepting and giving up any hope on creating their classic experience because the hardcore guilds wouldn't compromise on anything. After all, they owned the server, and now they get to own the server, and now proportionally even more. And casuals still have to play in the style of hardcore raiders to get anywhere, other than for 6 hours a month.

Originally Posted by Ambrotos [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I just don't see how any guild, GM or guide can dictate any guild to adapt to a play style they don't want to. Focus on that, figure how the two different sides can adapt it to this problem. Limiting NPCs to one tier or another and forced into the other side's play style is the second biggest issue.

[SeruScars]

Originally Posted by Uteunayr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Compromise is defined as an agreement or a settlement of a dispute that is reached by each side making concessions. Unless you see the play nice policy as a form of concession, then there were no concessions made by the hardcore guilds in this arrangement.

The question has laid on the distribution of mobs. We have X number, how do those get divvied up among the server guilds? The style championed by FE/TMO, etc., is the one that is more advantageous to them, the FFA system. Other people remember a classic experience of cooperation. So each side has, in their mind, what their ideal classic server is, and what they want from it.

Lets look at what happens now. You have 4 new repops added, the first two go to casuals. So, before this system, there were X mobs, and now there are X + Y mobs. The hardcores still get X mobs with the same level they did before, but they also get 1/2 Y. So, their total is X + 1/2 Y, meanwhile casuals go from 0 to 1/2 Y, without getting a share of X.


This isn't a compromise. This was a gain for the hardcore raiders more than anything. If a casual guild wants to do anything but go along for these 2 repops (which should last, what, 4 to 6 hours if you count both together, depending on how long it takes?), they are still required to play on the hardcore raider's terms.

This is in no way even close to concessions on both sides, this is casuals accepting and giving up any hope on creating their classic experience because the hardcore guilds wouldn't compromise on anything. After all, they owned the server, and now they get to own the server, and half the repops.

Good fucking grief. Does your misery know no bounds?