let's get real about item loot

[Lowlife]

Originally Posted by DrScience [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I were you, I'd be a lot more concerned with ideas/features that push players to join zerg guilds. I don't think there is anything more destructive to an EQ PVP server than that.

That being said, I think allowing people to loot bagged items is pushing people towards zerg mentality. I'll take you back to the melee player example, you simply cannot survive alone on a server as a melee if at any given moment any item you have on you is at risk. What do you do? Well you join the biggest guild you can find that has multiple porters and is able to take over a zone and be a security blanket for you.


Now, if you allow people to bag items, that melee can survive on his own. He isn't beholden to a certain group of players to provide safety. He can keep the items he finds most valuable safely tucked in his bags and use them when he deems the risk/reward of using them to be positive. He can now join a guild of his 5 close friends that might not even have a porting class and explore Norrath. He doesn't have to worry about what happens when someone comes to PVP and the rest of his group gates because they don't want to lose their items, etc.

^ kind of a stretch. observe what occurred on a server with zero item loot. no bagging does not = nihilum. bagging does not likewise encourage people to play melees.

full loot capability deters many from playing a melee regardless, and that system deters the crowd we are attempting to court (i.e. non-pvpers, casuals, and the like) whereas randomized loot w/ YT ADDS to enjoyment of an item loot mechanic, while REDUCING rage, required bagging experience/macroing, and reluctance to play a melee.

[a_gnoll_pup]

What about instead of having the items filtered by location and price, instead calculate the 'worth' of items based on stats:

AC + str + sta + int + wis + dex + agi + cha + (hp / 2) + (mana / 2) = pvp raw ranking

+= 10 for proc effects.

Top 20 items by worth get displayed.

NO-DROP items can be looted. Exclusions to specific items such as all primary/secondary weapons, potentially epic pieces?

[Lowlife]

Originally Posted by DrScience [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think a stretch is making the argument for item looting inside bags by using an example of a warrior killing a shadow stepping caster... Let me be the first to say, that is not going to happen, unless the caster was sitting down with 1 health.

I'm not sure what the rest of your argument is about - I wasn't even discussing "randomized loot" because it's a horrible idea. I realize you want to push your idea, it's human nature, but it's a bad idea.

the same could be said regarding your posts.

however can you challenge my (actually smedys) claims aside from just saying that they're bad?

The difference in philosophy is I'm trying to figure out a system that would be enjoyable for people outside of those of us that spent our time on Live on RZ, or played other PvP Boxes. Those are people we need to attract, despite item loot as a concept hampering that, to bolster population. Randomized loot is more palatable to bluebies than a system that you or I would personally find more enjoyable. Its a comprehensive solution. Likewise, it adds the YT element that I think everyone would find enjoyable, an element other variants do not include.

[Rheon]

Originally Posted by DrScience [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've been trying to find the words to describe why "randomized" looting is bad.

The best use case I came up with is that there isn't always an opportunity to loot someone effectively. What I mean by 'looting someone effectively' is systematically checking each piece of gear in their inventory after kill and choosing the most valuable to you/most valuable to them/or some combination.

It's pretty obvious that if you see a cloak of flames you should loot it just based on rarity, but most pvp encounters you won't have the luxury of such items so you'll have a pretty large selection of decent items.

Now lets use the example that you're in a 5 v 5 fight in the middle of SolB, you just killed me but you're at 30% health and you think you're being targeted by the wizard. Since you've decided you're about to die, you try to loot me. You figure you have less than 3 seconds until the ice comet hits, so you're really under the gun to loot.

You see what looks like a hooded black cloak, but don't have the time to bring up the text to see what item it is. You decide to assume I own a hooded black cloak and loot it, just before getting killed by the wizard.

When you get back to your corpse, you find out you really looted a [insert really bad cloak that shares the same icon as HBC]. This type of scenario (and I assure you, it will be a very common scenario - being under an extreme time constraint to loot an item) is not possible under "randomized" looting. In fact, you've changed the whole dynamic of item loot and taken away all of the emotion from it. That's the best way to describe it using 1 use case.

This guy has it right, 1v1 with no other players around sure..if you killed someone you could take all day looting a corpse..but not when it was 5v5 or even 2v1! you only had time to have a quick loot check before dieing or having to run.

Also what about portal campers? or zone entrance/exit campers, if i have 100% chance of looting an item off someone i might as well sit on a portal with my buddy and wait for someone to port in and kill them before they finish loading in or sit outside a zone waiting for low health players to zone out and kill them? The no bagging items rule would be silly and i don't think many people would enjoy playing in that kinda scenario, it way too imbalanced.