DPS: Monk vs. Warrior vs. Rogue vs. Ranger

[Snaggles]

Ultimately as long as the system has some degree of common sense and is used consistently, I wouldn’t knock any someone tweaking their own.

Many of the spreadsheets either assume an optimistic offhand swing ratio or uses outdated damage bonuses for 2h’s. This makes dual wield look far better than it is. People rarely look at the cell calculations too…which is troubling. I’ll let Excel do my math but I’d like to know how it’s doing it, lol.

[bcbrown]

Seems to me that DSM's approach is indeed more accurate, but that the (2*DMG + bonus) / delay is so much simpler with only minimal loss in accuracy (32.1 SBoZ equivalence at 40 delay instead of 32.4 in this scenario) that I understand why that's the popular rule of thumb. And that last example also helped me understand why SBoZ gets even better at high AC targets.

I have some follow-up questions to help clarify some of the mechanics I still understand poorly:

Using min damage value of 9 for a level 60 based on some log data for Frostwrath.

Could you clarify what min damage means here? I think what you're saying is that the minimum pre-bonus hit is 9, which means the log data here would be showing a minimum actual hit of 20 (with 11 damage bonus). Is that correct?

The damage table thing you linked shows { 285 Max Extra, 23 Chance, 65 Minusfactor }. The calculation you did uses the Minusfactor value. What do the other two numbers do?

Is the calculation you provided documented anywhere on the wiki?

And lastly, as an FYI, if you click the line number in Github it updates the URL to to link directly to that line: https://github.com/EQEmu/Server/blob...tack.cpp#L5285

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Could you clarify what min damage means here? I think what you're saying is that the minimum pre-bonus hit is 9, which means the log data here would be showing a minimum actual hit of 20 (with 11 damage bonus). Is that correct?

Yes. I never hit for 12, which would be the lowest damage value if the minimum damage was 1 at level 60. Lowest damage value I saw was 21 on Frostwrath (21 - 11= 10) and 46 on my 46/44 2handed weapon (46-37 = 9). Since the difference was 1 damage lower on the 2h weapon, I am assuming that is the min value. I don't know right now what the exact formula is for determining minimum damage. These damage bonus values of 11 and 37 are from this table:

https://lucy.allakhazam.com/dmgbonus.html?setcookie=1

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The damage table thing you linked shows { 285 Max Extra, 23 Chance, 65 Minusfactor }. The calculation you did uses the Minusfactor value. What do the other two numbers do?

I don't remember off the top of my head.

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Is the calculation you provided documented anywhere on the wiki?

It is similar to the existing one on the wiki if I recall, but this one is more detailed. I probably should update the wiki at some point.

[bcbrown]

I'd be happy to collaborate with you on the wiki update, or serve as a reviewer to double-check the math, because https://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Me...bat_and_Damage is the only wiki reference I see, and it's very much incomplete and outdated.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by bcbrown [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd be happy to collaborate with you on the wiki update, or serve as a reviewer to double-check the math, because https://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Me...bat_and_Damage is the only wiki reference I see, and it's very much incomplete and outdated.

Yeah I wouldn't mind doing that. Only outstanding thing is testing attack bonus. I need to test with avatar at some point to see if extra attack is actually added as extra strength. That's what it seems like, but only having +21 attack is not a huge difference in the calculation. so that could be incorrect. I am pretty confident extra attack does increase your max damage, so it has to go somewhere.

Oh and minimum damage calulations.

[Jimjam]

On the subject of rounding dmg, how does this work woth the 20 damage intervals? Is it round up to 1 otherwise round to closest?

for i=1,20

if((i/10*dmg)<1,1,ROUND(i/10*dmg))

What would be the best way to check? A 10 dmg vs 3 dmg weapon on a low level caster?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On the subject of rounding dmg, how does this work woth the 20 damage intervals? Is it round up to 1 otherwise round to closest?

for i=1,20

if((i/10*dmg)<1,1,ROUND(i/10*dmg))

What would be the best way to check? A 10 dmg vs 3 dmg weapon on a low level caster?

Depends. What line is that code? If the result is stored in an integer type variable, generally speaking it will always round down on a positive value, and up on a negative.

[Naethyn]

Attack absolutely does not increase your max damage. Attack increases your average damage in a similar way that mob AC reduces your average damage.

[Jimjam]

It’s a garble of lua and xml i just made up as an hypothetical example [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you suggesting the first few di with a low dmg weapon like dagger* would hit for zero damage?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It’s a garble of lua and xml i just made up as an hypothetical example [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you suggesting the first few di with a low dmg weapon like dagger* would hit for zero damage?

Most likely the value is clamped at 1 as a minimum, so you'd always hit for at least 1. But a value like 1.7 would still round down to 1 if it was just being stored in an integer without any other rounding done to it beforehand.