Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's the opposite[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] This discussion was checkmated a while ago, but people just can't admit Mages are not very good. Math trumps your feelings. It is factual reality.

Your math shows your shaman feelings, nothing else, lol. It doesn't apply to reality. While that may be true in your own little mind, you haven't convinced anyone else, hehe.

Basically what happened is you recommended a shaman, then people made you realize their utility is useless if you swap in a mage for more dps. So now you're attempting to prove shaman's are better group dps over a group dps class, lol. And we haven't even talked about epic mages.

Seriously, it's ok, just accept defeat for once, you lost this debate a long time ago, lol.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your math shows your shaman feelings, nothing else, lol. It doesn't apply to reality. While that may be true in your own little mind, you haven't convinced anyone else, hehe.

Basically what happened is you recommended a shaman, then people made you realize their utility is useless if you swap in a mage for more dps. So now you're attempting to prove shaman's are better group dps over a group dps class, lol. And we haven't even talked about epic mages.

Seriously, it's ok, just accept defeat for once, you lost this debate a long time ago, lol.

Just because people aren't convinced, doesn't make it false lol. The strategy I described would work perfectly if you cared about max DPS. But with 2x Enchanters you don't really need the extra DPS to begin with. Epic mage is irrelevant due to it's rarity.

I have no problem accepting defeat in any debate, I have done so before. But if you are wrong why would I?

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just because people aren't convinced, doesn't make it false lol. The strategy I described would work perfectly if you cared about max DPS. But with 2x Enchanters you don't really need the extra DPS to begin with. Epic mage is irrelevant due to it's rarity.

I have no problem accepting defeat in any debate, I have done so before. But if you are wrong why would I?

You are never wrong in your mind so you keep posting for 15 pages, basically UCF

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You are never wrong in your mind so you keep posting for 15 pages, basically UCF

That is your projection, not the truth. You can look through my post history. I have admitted I am wrong plenty of times[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] The simple truth is when people can't win a debate with facts and logic, they resort to name calling or character attacks.

That is the sign you have lost the debate. The only thing you can do is insult[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] If I am wrong, please bring the evidence.

Troxx gave us the DPS numbers for his Mage, and I gave you the DPS numbers for my Shaman. It's really that simple.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That is your projection, not the truth. You can look through my post history. I have admitted I am wrong plenty of times[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] The simple truth is when people can't win a debate with facts and logic, they resort to name calling or character attacks.

That is the sign you have lost the debate. The only thing you can do is insult[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] If I am wrong, please bring the evidence.

Troxx gave us the DPS numbers for his Mage, and I gave you the DPS numbers for my Shaman. It's really that simple.

Your DPS numbers would never hold up in reality, lol. A mage can consistently put that out. A shaman will never have enough mobs in the camp to do that. It's simply not sustainable. Eventually the camp will be split, and you'll be sniping one at a time, in which a mage would be even better for.

You should really reconstruct your arguments. Instead of thinking "how am i going to convince people that shamans are better group dps than a group dps class" you should be thinking "how am i going to convince people that shamans utility would outweigh what a mage would bring". People might actually take you seriously then hehe.

[Vexenu]

So it's suddenly not about DPS, it's about utility? What utility is a Shaman adding to Enc/Enc/Clr that surpasses what, for example, a Necro could bring?

The Necro adds:
- Snare
- Pulling
- FD/Rez for wipes
- Possibility of 3rd charm pet in undead zones
- 2nd strongest summoned pet
- Twitching mana as needed
- Screaming terror on charm breaks
- Patch healing
- Corpse summons and associated tricks
- Most hilarious of all: with Epic and VP staff, can root rot 4 mobs off to the side of the group even better than a Shaman!!! lol, lmao even

The Shaman adds:

- A better slow, which is largely redundant with 2x Enchanters
- Torpor, which is largely useless with a Cleric CHing charm pets
- A mediocre pet, much worse than the equivalent level Necro pet
- Long durations DoTs also worse than the Necro's
- Patch healing
- Malo. Not really needed in most cases (if you assume Chanters have Tola robes they also have - MR gear for pets)
- Haste? Chanters got it covered
- Buffs? Not needed with charm pets
- SoW. N/A in dungeons where it matters
- Regrowth. Lol
- Shrink?? Lol
- JBB spamming??? <--- pathetically this is probably the most you would actually contribute to the group
- Mostly just standing around being a fat fuck Ogre leeching XP and loot from the actual useful members of the group

Shaman literally adds so little to Enc/Enc/Clr that you'd basically be dead weight.

[Troxx]

Sorry on the delay with parses. Yesterday was really busy. I’ll get them compiled today from seb crypt.

[PatChapp]

Shaman is second tier in that group compared to a 2nd cleric or necro,but a mage would be last pick. The only thing they offer is Malo and unneeded DPS.
Even a wizard would be preferred, better burn rate and evac.
I have a lvl 60 magician for reference, I do not hate mages they just aren't useful on that group.

[PatChapp]

We just use our guilds coth bot on poop mountain. But yes,mage nearly essential to a jugg farm.

[Keebz]

People keeping losing the message. The mage is there mainly for malo + pet. The pet is really good on charm breaks and malo helps reduce charm breaks. Because there are 2 chanters, the value of this is doubled. The added utility and DPS are secondary to that.

People have suggested Necro instead, which is a fair argument.