there is a private list system going on at AC in OOT?

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First off, I don't know of any player agreements that have made it to Green, because every agreement I know of is in Kunark/Velious. This whole idea that any "player agreement" rules apply to (say) the OOT AC list is still speculative elf law [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But I really don't think they're hard to explain, or at least not any harder than explaining anything else weird about a 20-year old game whose rules are enforced by volunteers.

1. In the original ('99-'01) there were several mobs that required "turn-ins"
2. Back then, there was very little competition for these mobs, both because players lacked knowledge about them, and because of other options (eg. virtually no one cared about shady/angry goblin on live, because they had Luclin loot a few months later)
3. • Also, for Scout specifically, people used to have to bring a raid force, and this obviously cut down the number of turn-ins
4. Here, everyone knows not just how they work but exactly when these mobs will spawn, resulting in a "clickfest"
5. Everyone agrees clickfests suck, except autofire cheaters and people with insanely lucky internet connections
6. The staff (being overworked volunteers) doesn't have time to show up every time these mobs spawn and enforce any system
7. What they can do is let the players come up with a system and enforce that (and only show up in the far rarer cases of one player bucking the system everyone else agreed to)

Blue player agreements explained.

I know what they are. I also understand why they are. How they have come to be/and can change has seemed fishy to me.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know what they are. I also understand why they are. How they have come to be/and can change has seemed fishy to me.

As someone who helped create the Shady Goblin one I can answer that [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"How" is that I showed up to the Shady Goblin spawn point before his spawn, and started talking with the other people there while we waited. Over time I (and others) helped convince everyone showing up that "yes, we'll click for now, but as soon as we can get everyone to agree to roll we'll do that instead".

Now for days if not weeks after that, we still clicked. There were several people who either thought it was some sort of trick, or just thought that by doing the opposite of what everyone else did they could benefit themselves, and those people kept the clickfest going. One person, who I feel should live in infamy forever for doing the most to set things back the longest, was a guy named Siryado.

But eventually we finally got everyone (including Siryado) to agree, and from that point on instead of a clickfest we had a glorious roll! But even then it wasn't guaranteed: even for awhile afterward everyone worried that some asshole would show up, ignore the roll, and turn-in ... but the beauty of social pressure (no one wanted to be the asshole that pissed off 20+ other people with their selfishness) prevented it from happening, and the roll became standard practice.

Then at some unknown point after that, the staff said "we see you players have a good thing going, with 20-odd people all playing nice together: if one loser interrupts this we'll ban that loser". Only they didn't say it that way because they're staff [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] And thus, staff-enforced player agreements are born.

[fastboy21]

That's actually an interesting story to add to the history books.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As someone who helped create the Shady Goblin one I can answer that [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Then at some unknown point after that, the staff said "we see you players have a good thing going, with 20-odd people all playing nice together: if one loser interrupts this we'll ban that loser". Only they didn't say it that way because they're staff [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] And thus, staff-enforced player agreements are born.

This is the part that I don't understand really. "At some point". It makes sense...but how did the staff decide when a critical mass for a critical time agreeing to something meant it should be enforced by staff? Its good...but it seems super arbitrary.

Also, how can it change? Are future players on blue forever bound to an agreement forged months/years ago?

Are there any examples of staff unbinding a player agreement based on players deciding to abandon it?

Is there any example of a player agreement that staff didn't like, but accepted/enforced because players had agreed?

[Phaezed-Reality]

continued welfare pixels.

[fastboy21]

I'll also add that I definitely look at these agreements (even when I like them and think they do good things) with the suspicious bias I have towards all things binding on me that I didn't agree to... (can you guess I'm a Libertarian IRL?)

More curious than anything else...I like the benefit of player agreements.

[Snortles Chortles]

ACKCHYUALLY

[dcortez]

30 day lock out on each account that loots? Just tossing it out there.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by dcortez [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

30 day lock out on each account that loots? Just tossing it out there.

The short answer to this is that there are MANY great ways we could improve things with custom programming ... but just as we have few volunteer GMs, we also have few volunteer developers, and they're busy fixing corpse-poofing bugs and trying to make things classic and all that.

Thus, any solution that requires custom coding is always going to be problematic. The cases where the devs give us such a solution (eg. FTE messages on raid mobs or /list on legacy mobs) are extremely rare, and I think the staff does them not for us players, but instead to make things easier for their (again, volunteer/limited) GM team.

This desn't mean we players can't ask for them (I advocate for "automated GMing" all the time) ... but we shouldn't realistically expect them.

[Muggens]

Its summer, 18 pages of camp arguments using words like continuum and legislature, 100 people of the list...in a 400 year old barbarian simulator. Its summer

[Loadsamoney]

Originally Posted by Muggens [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its summer, 18 pages of camp arguments using words like continuum and legislature, 100 people of the list...in a 400 year old barbarian simulator. Its summer

Yeah, it's Summer, peak time for indoor internet gaming.