"Need before greed"

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think it's greed if you need the item at the time and use it and then sell it later though...

You're rolling on the currency or value that's contained in that item. And what you do with that is irrelevant; whether you keep it in the original by equipping it, whether you use it on tradeskills, or whether you buy another item makes no difference.

[Fawqueue]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think it's greed if you need the item at the time and use it and then sell it later though...

But what item truly constitutes as a need in this game? A need is an necessity that you cannot do without. Greed is something you want, because it makes life easier or you will simply enjoy it. In EverQuest, a key that provides access might be considered a need since you are prevented from content without it. However, droppable gear is simply something you desire because it makes things more convenient..but you could easily continue to play without it.

So if somebody in your group says they 'need' that item that just dropped, what they really mean is "that would make things a more convenient for me, so I want it. Even though you could sell it to make things more convenient for you, I think I deserve it because it says WAR and you are not a WAR and rather than be fair about this I want us to cater to bogus circumstantial coincidence and prey upon your societal desire to follow rules and be a good citizen."

[bum3]

Originally Posted by GuiltyLight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... yes. Yes it is. There is no actual difference between you wanting to not spend money on the item and then get money from selling it later, and other people rolling on it to sell it in the tunnel. It's all greed.

If a good item drops, no one needs it. There's no such thing as needing an item. Everyone wants it because everyone is greedy. Because it's going to make them more powerful or get the more platinum or make them look fabulous. It's greed. Who can equip it is irrelevant.

Also what are you talking about about how that character is you? It's a video game. Even D&D is just a role-playing game, and an MMO is a pretty far cry from a pencil and paper RPG to begin with. Shaniqua the wood elf Ranger doesn't exist. And her player doesn't need that fbss any more than anyone else in the group does.

There is a reason historians say in order for civilization to proceed in a positive direction you must burn all lawyers first. A class can need an item. A warrior needs proccing weps to be viable. Sure he can dps without it but he isn't tanking anything. A wizard winning fbss to equip an alt isn't need. Sure he can buy an int item that will help him once every few hours when hes full mana because he afk'd during a group and got it. Otherwise he has int to increase his mana that he rarely gets to use when it matters. Point of MMO and DnD and other roleplay games is to be the character.. not be you. There's a reason they are MMORPGs and not just MMOs. Only greedy people use arguments like yours. The warrior needs ac gear and proccing items because he wants to hold agro for his groups and he wants to not take excess damage that didn't need to be taken. And you are selfish in thinking that item he looted only benefits you for the short while hes with you so he shouldn't get it over you. You are probably the person who thinks that warrior sucked because he took more damage than he should have or that he couldn't keep agro for anything. But hey that's just my opinion as a person who passes on almost all loot for people as upgrades even if it's a slight upgrade for me.

[Meiva]

If no loot drops for our group I'll inspect for an item another member is wearing and he will then put that item up for random.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by bum3 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There is a reason historians say in order for civilization to proceed in a positive direction you must burn all lawyers first. A class can need an item. A warrior needs proccing weps to be viable. Sure he can dps without it but he isn't tanking anything. A wizard winning fbss to equip an alt isn't need. Sure he can buy an int item that will help him once every few hours when hes full mana because he afk'd during a group and got it. Otherwise he has int to increase his mana that he rarely gets to use when it matters. Point of MMO and DnD and other roleplay games is to be the character.. not be you. There's a reason they are MMORPGs and not just MMOs. Only greedy people use arguments like yours. The warrior needs ac gear and proccing items because he wants to hold agro for his groups and he wants to not take excess damage that didn't need to be taken. And you are selfish in thinking that item he looted only benefits you for the short while hes with you so he shouldn't get it over you. You are probably the person who thinks that warrior sucked because he took more damage than he should have or that he couldn't keep agro for anything. But hey that's just my opinion as a person who passes on almost all loot for people as upgrades even if it's a slight upgrade for me.

Agree with you. Seems like a pretty ridiculous argument some people are making in this thread that because the "needer" may eventually replace the item with an upgrade at some vague point in time down the road (and then likely sell the old item that they rolled need on, possibly months before they sold it) that they can't roll need on something. If I was in a group with people like that I'd leave the group (and I've also never actually seen people apply the theory of no need rolls at all in a group before, so it seems like that's an extreme minority opinion).

[Smellybuttface]

Originally Posted by cd288 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agree with you. Seems like a pretty ridiculous argument some people are making in this thread that because the "needer" may eventually replace the item with an upgrade at some vague point in time down the road (and then likely sell the old item that they rolled need on, possibly months before they sold it) that they can't roll need on something. If I was in a group with people like that I'd leave the group (and I've also never actually seen people apply the theory of no need rolls at all in a group before, so it seems like that's an extreme minority opinion).

Exactly the point I made earlier. There is a large disparity between what people are espousing in the forums and what is actually occurring in-game. NBG seems the norm is most every group I come across, and yet here on this thread it’s led by those largely against Need before Greed. I don’t understand this chasm of difference between in-game culture and our-of-game theory.

[Vostok]

There were actually a good amount of nbg groups among the first set of camps as the now 50s were leveling and was pleasantly surprising. Just make sure the rules of the camp before you join a loot group, if you dont like the rules a premade camp is using either cry about it or join in and hush.
Likely most pick up groups will just /random stuff, but you dont want a group falling apart because an item drops and someone wants to call nbg when that was never the case. A lot of items are currently not worth very much and if a 100plat ring is causing you to have a melt down then you are just being over dramatic.

[Hazek]

Originally Posted by Vostok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A lot of items are currently not worth very much and if a 100plat ring is causing you to have a melt down then you are just being over dramatic.

You could say that about the person rolling "need" too. So if they don't let other people roll then they're just having a meltdown and being over dramatic about a 100p item. Also 100p is a good amount of money if your main is level 25 or lower. Even at higher levels getting a 100p drop is nothing to scoff at, although much less significant.

[Kanuvan]

most things are tradeable which can be sold or traded for other items and potential upgrades, if you let someone impose NBG on you you are being scammed, i need that 2k just as much as you need that +5 int and +10 mana

[Siege]

Originally Posted by Kanuvan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

most things are tradeable which can be sold or traded for other items and potential upgrades, if you let someone impose NBG on you you are being scammed, i need that 2k just as much as you need that +5 int and +10 mana

You should never roll on an item thinking that you're going to get anywhere near the Wiki price. The item values on the Wiki are often best-case scenario. They're also subject to fairly rapid change on a fresh server like Green. You should also take into consideration that the time you spend sitting in EC is time you could be spending leveling up your character and collecting increasingly valuable loot. That single roll might actually end up costing you precious plat in the long run.

Second of all, you need to ask yourself if not allowing the casters in your group to loot a potentially BiS item is worth your reputation. One or more of the people who watched you do that might never want to group with you again, even if they didn't need the item. Pixel lust is certainly one of the ways that I gauge a person's character on P99. That one moment might have cost you a lot of future groups with cool people who would have allowed you to loot whatever you needed, no questions asked. That's how my buddies and I roll. You do something decent for us and we pay you back tenfold.

You might also be giving an item to an unappreciative person, but I'd rather err on the side of 'doing the right thing' because it feels good to rise above the pixel lust by letting go of all attachment to a potentially big-ticket item.