New ToV Racing Rules

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I'll give an example of a limiting rule that worked decently in eq2 contested. Any guild that has not yet killed an encounter, if they show up in force and are present at spawn, they get 10 minutes (adjust as needed) to make an attempt. If they fail, mob is open.

This was a good rule, because it meant *any* guild could decide they want a shot, and they would get a shot. If they failed on first attempt, they lost mob and better luck next time.

It at least diversified the raid scene.

[JurisDictum]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll give an example of a limiting rule that worked decently in eq2 contested. Any guild that has not yet killed an encounter, if they show up in force and are present at spawn, they get 10 minutes (adjust as needed) to make an attempt. If they fail, mob is open.

This was a good rule, because it meant *any* guild could decide they want a shot, and they would get a shot. If they failed on first attempt, they lost mob and better luck next time.

It at least diversified the raid scene.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean; each guild only get one target? Or each guild rotates targets? Or is it FFA and each guild can only engage one target at once?

[xexbis0]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm an idealist. How things ought to be in my mind versus reality aren't necessarily going to match up. I'm only anti-tracking because I've witnessed its evolution over the years into the disgusting state of affairs we have now. In the game within a game we play, tracking, FTE, frapsquest, CoTH ducking, etc, Everquest got lost somewhere.

I'd like to see a server that had guilds with membership caps so each individual actually contribute something by attending raids. The sheer number of people needed to keep the 24/7 machine fed minimizes an individual's importance. So naturally, your respective "crazies" are put on a pedestal. Those are people who probably enjoy the sick meta game, are good at it, and would probably not like P99 anymore if the game changed.

The game needs to change though. If TMO taught me anything, it's that EQ without competition is pretty fun. More competition means more escalation means more drastic measures means more negativity to secure that all important FTE. Those things bleed the fun out of the game that was originally about killing dragons for fun's sake.

The leaders of these guilds need to sudden realize that no matter what they do, short of a Pyrrhic victory every single spawn, they aren't going to win. If the raid scene scaled back on our uhh competition and revolved more around enjoying the game, like with a rotation... this would be a healthier server. But I have doubts about our FTE heroes ever allowing that to happen. They aren't martyrs. They enjoy it.

I don't think it's the players solely responsible for the mess at the top. Don't get me wrong, a swath of them act like you just asked them if they wanted to live in North Korea when you bring about the idea of any sort of rotation. It's something I was hoping the leadership of Awakened would bring to the table at the summit (outside ToV) to at least allow for some C/R/FFA stuff. I knew Aftermath would never do it. I was hoping Awakened had some common sense to put Aftermath in their own corner as pariahs.

Sirken's VZ background certainly makes sense as it relates to him loving "competition". The difference is on Vallon Zek when we competed it was full scale 55 on 80 wars with strategic involvement. Getting mobilized first essentially equalled the high ground as you could plop yourself in ToV entrance as the others had to zone in etc. Sirken is trying to stick a cube in a round hole by doing that on a blue server. It makes very little sense to place such high value on "competition" without having a feasible way to actually compete other than going into untold levels of nerd-dom.

I agree. The server would be healthier in the long run if some end game content, and not all of it, there should be a separation after all, was made accessible to the actual public and not the super nerd clubs.

I was advocating for a rotation outside of ToV and VP in the same exact mold that they had in Kunark. Any killing inside ToV automatically moves you to class C. Giving up 1 out of 3 KTs, Yelis, CTs to the more casual guilds was just an abhorrent idea, particularly to the Rampage side of Awakened. I doubt it was even discussed in Aftermath. Detoxx's depravity and his spin doctors know no limits. The barrier of entry for the smaller guilds is so large we will see moving forward if it's feasible under the new rules. It is pretty sick the lengths to which people will go to keep the status quo. It's why I left Awakened even though there are a ton of good people and friends in that guild. It's a grind fest lacking fun.

If I can be even a small help to a Class R guild to even some scales, it's what I hope to do. If I'm going to sink to those levels of "competition", Id much rather do it with people having fun day in, day out, than treat it as a job.

TL[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]R Cecily - I agree with you.

[Raev]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The game needs to change though. If TMO taught me anything, it's that EQ without competition is pretty fun. More competition means more escalation means more drastic measures means more negativity to secure that all important FTE. Those things bleed the fun out of the game that was originally about killing dragons for fun's sake.

100% agree with this, but it's pretty surprising to see it coming from you.

The problem is variance bleeds the fun out of the game. You have to be a monstrous 24/7 tracking zerg.

I just don't think the players can solve this though. There is a critical mass of people willing to track/batphone/zerg for pixels (I am one, it seems).

[Maner]

Originally Posted by xexbis0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think it's the players solely responsible for the mess at the top. Don't get me wrong, a swath of them act like you just asked them if they wanted to live in North Korea when you bring about the idea of any sort of rotation. It's something I was hoping the leadership of Awakened would bring to the table at the summit (outside ToV) to at least allow for some C/R/FFA stuff. I knew Aftermath would never do it. I was hoping Awakened had some common sense to put Aftermath in their own corner as pariahs.

Sirken's VZ background certainly makes sense as it relates to him loving "competition". The difference is on Vallon Zek when we competed it was full scale 55 on 80 wars with strategic involvement. Getting mobilized first essentially equalled the high ground as you could plop yourself in ToV entrance as the others had to zone in etc. Sirken is trying to stick a cube in a round hole by doing that on a blue server. It makes very little sense to place such high value on "competition" without having a feasible way to actually compete other than going into untold levels of nerd-dom.

I agree. The server would be healthier in the long run if some end game content, and not all of it, there should be a separation after all, was made accessible to the actual public and not the super nerd clubs.

I was advocating for a rotation outside of ToV and VP in the same exact mold that they had in Kunark. Any killing inside ToV automatically moves you to class C. Giving up 1 out of 3 KTs, Yelis, CTs to the more casual guilds was just an abhorrent idea, particularly to the Rampage side of Awakened. I doubt it was even discussed in Aftermath. Detoxx's depravity and his spin doctors know no limits. The barrier of entry for the smaller guilds is so large we will see moving forward if it's feasible under the new rules. It is pretty sick the lengths to which people will go to keep the status quo. It's why I left Awakened even though there are a ton of good people and friends in that guild. It's a grind fest lacking fun.

If I can be even a small help to a Class R guild to even some scales, it's what I hope to do. If I'm going to sink to those levels of "competition", Id much rather do it with people having fun day in, day out, than treat it as a job.

TL[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]R Cecily - I agree with you.

You obviously have no idea how the internal conversations go in either guild if that is what you think. We are where we are, rule wise, because awakened refused to abide by the agreements made between rampage and forsaken/Asgard. The whole 2 mages per target was awakeneds doing.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is variance bleeds the fun out of the game.

What about people who aren't on American time? Set those mobs to prime US hours and freeze out people in other time zones.

"really bleeds the fun out of the game" having variance folks...

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

Originally Posted by JurisDictum [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean; each guild only get one target? Or each guild rotates targets? Or is it FFA and each guild can only engage one target at once?

This rule is not a cure-all. it is an example of a rule that diversifies raid scene.

Any guild that has not killed a mob yet (ie, a Trakanon or a Phara Dar, a statue, etc, etc.) can camp a spawn and get X minute long window to do an attempt at spawn. As long as they are in force they can claim first try. Window for that try can be adjusted to taste. This at least means, any guild on p99 can make an effort and camp a spawn, and at least get one shot. After a guild has killed a mob, this of course is no longer a relevant rule. It's not a cure-all, as I said.

[Jarnauga]

i hope the trackers can kill the dragons by themselves

What's the point of me loging in if i don't have a fucking chance of having vulak loot after a year of constant raiding, amirite ? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[xexbis0]

Originally Posted by Maner [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You obviously have no idea how the internal conversations go in either guild if that is what you think. We are where we are, rule wise, because awakened refused to abide by the agreements made between rampage and forsaken/Asgard. The whole 2 mages per target was awakeneds doing.

Oh. I'm sure gating mages to targets and CoTHing had nothing to do with more than 2 mages in North, something which eventually led to Aftermath conceding multiple Dragons. Awakened had 2 mages in North at its formation and gave up when you started doing something you thought was immensely clever. Thank you for proving my point about Aftermath and it's spin team though. You dissect a tiny piece and proceed to straight out lie and misrepresent facts. Awakened did move multiple mages to targets. That much is true.

[Mistle]

The true solution is a lot easier than everyone here is making it out to be.

Two servers.

This server, with full on competition. CotH ducking, trains everywhere, you name it.

A new server, with lockouts.

Which server would have all the people within six months, and which would be bordering on Red territory of irrelevance?

I think we all know the answer.