New ToV Racing Rules

[zanderklocke]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's be real. A-team getting epics is what destroyed the guild.

Probably.

[nicemace]

phinny server is actually a good example of a healthy raid server.

instanced raids so even casual guilds who raid 12 hours a week in the evenings are clearing VP.

buffed mobs so they aren't a complete walk over (naggy hitting in the 1000's)

still open world mobs for the 'competition'

insanely slow exp for all you p99 nerds who like slow levelling.

majority no boxing (requires addition PC to box)

[Raev]

Here is the thing, though: Kunark was a grouping expansion while Velious is a raiding expansion.

In Kunark most of the content was geared towards single groups: new levels, new spells, and new dungeons that contained some of the best items in the game. The raid content consisted of VP and a few outdoor dragons, some of which dropped Classic items! And with the armor bp/greaves tradeable, if you were in an 'R' guild you could see 95% of the content and get 95% of the gear (everything but PD).

In Velious most of the content is geared towards raids. No new levels. Only a few new spells. Three fun new dungeons that no one goes to (with these words I summon Xoquil) because they are harder than Sebilis and don't have the signature loot items. Meanwhile the raid content is massive: Temple of Veeshan is really three raid zones welded together, Kael is also huge and well designed, Plane of Growth, Sleeper's Tomb, and plenty of random targets. The gear difference is also huge; you can effectively get PD loot in every slot.

So if you are in an 'R' guild you are basically limited to grabbing uncontested Kunark dragons and finishing epics and farming ToV East or West endlessly (or you could just BDA and help Chest's alt get a crown of rile). You get to see maybe 50% of the content of Velious and get 50% of the gear. And I think we are starting to see the rumblings of this on the Raid Discussion forum. CSG, BDA, Divinity, Anonymous, etc are all starting to get tired of that 500th Halls of Testing raid.

I've been there in the trenches on the raid discussion forum trying to get the staff to change the raid scene to something that rewards coordination and player skill rather than zerg poopsocking. After about 2-3 years, I gave up. It's just not going to happen. The staff may not like the current situation, but they don't hate it enough to fix it. Who can blame them? Rogean burned out long ago but he keeps the server up for free anyway. I can't imagine spending 20+ hours a week answering petitions and watching raid guilds lawyer each other without getting paid.

So I decided I'd rather zerg poopsock a bit (my schedule is flexible, so logging in for 10 minutes to kill a dragon periodically isn't particularly onerous) than miss out on 2/3 of the expansion. There are also quite some decent people in Rampage/Awakened, and nothing is stopping me from doing some of the group content too. I had a fun time in Siren's Grotto today doing the lower temple with a few pals.

TLDR: I decided to stop fighting a losing battle.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is the thing, though: Kunark was a grouping expansion while Velious is a raiding expansion.

That's not true, it took BDA 75-80 people, and Taken a similar number to take down Trakanon.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

(or you could just BDA and help Chest's alt get a crown of rile)

Cmon now, there's literally 4 crowns in BDA monk, rogue, Me, and a ranger. Phara Dar is a stupid dragon.

[xexbis0]

Originally Posted by Raev [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here is the thing, though: Kunark was a grouping expansion while Velious is a raiding expansion.

In Kunark most of the content was geared towards single groups: new levels, new spells, and new dungeons that contained some of the best items in the game. The raid content consisted of VP and a few outdoor dragons, some of which dropped Classic items! And with the armor bp/greaves tradeable, if you were in an 'R' guild you could see 95% of the content and get 95% of the gear (everything but PD).

In Velious most of the content is geared towards raids. No new levels. Only a few new spells. Three fun new dungeons that no one goes to (with these words I summon Xoquil) because they are harder than Sebilis and don't have the signature loot items. Meanwhile the raid content is massive: Temple of Veeshan is really three raid zones welded together, Kael is also huge and well designed, Plane of Growth, Sleeper's Tomb, and plenty of random targets. The gear difference is also huge; you can effectively get PD loot in every slot.

So if you are in an 'R' guild you are basically limited to grabbing uncontested Kunark dragons and finishing epics and farming ToV East or West endlessly (or you could just BDA and help Chest's alt get a crown of rile). You get to see maybe 50% of the content of Velious and get 50% of the gear. And I think we are starting to see the rumblings of this on the Raid Discussion forum. CSG, BDA, Divinity, Anonymous, etc are all starting to get tired of that 500th Halls of Testing raid.

I've been there in the trenches on the raid discussion forum trying to get the staff to change the raid scene to something that rewards coordination and player skill rather than zerg poopsocking. After about 2-3 years, I gave up. It's just not going to happen. The staff may not like the current situation, but they don't hate it enough to fix it. Who can blame them? Rogean burned out long ago but he keeps the server up for free anyway. I can't imagine spending 20+ hours a week answering petitions and watching raid guilds lawyer each other without getting paid.

So I decided I'd rather zerg poopsock a bit (my schedule is flexible, so logging in for 10 minutes to kill a dragon periodically isn't particularly onerous) than miss out on 2/3 of the expansion. There are also quite some decent people in Rampage/Awakened, and nothing is stopping me from doing some of the group content too. I had a fun time in Siren's Grotto today doing the lower temple with a few pals.

TLDR: I decided to stop fighting a losing battle.

And this is why I decided to leave. Despite the fact yall have to resort to making xexsessed jokes about tunare in mumble/guild chat and crap, Tunare had very little to do with my departure. It's kind of sad honestly how often I hear about my name. I honestly thought Awakened had a better moral code than they did. I knew the Taken officers and the ones leading that side of the merger. I considered them good people. I thought they had a really good platform to really push for a better raid scene at that summit. It turns out, Awakened is very similar to Aftermath except they care about playing by the rules just slightly more. That realization, that the soul of the good people in Taken lost in this merger, was a loss I was unwilling to care about. There's this massive amount of elitist attitude from people in that guild who think because they were Rampage, they were god's gift to Velious. I expected Detoxx and co to be a bunch of selfish pricks in that summit. Awakened not so much. The 2 are oh so very similar despite wanting to act like they are so different. There are decent people in both guilds. Plenty who think this arms race is beyond bleeping retarded. This isn't EQ. It's some weird "who can be the best people to neglect RL" to be able to swing your dick around the most between two fairly comparable guilds. I just don't understand why there can't be a balance between competition and human decency. Join the stupidity or let these literal dozens/hundreds of days played never result in any end game velious content. Fun.

[contemptor]

Originally Posted by xexbis0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And this is why I decided to leave. Despite the fact yall have to resort to making xexsessed jokes about tunare in mumble/guild chat and crap, Tunare had very little to do with my departure. It's kind of sad honestly how often I hear about my name. I honestly thought Awakened had a better moral code than they did. I knew the Taken officers and the ones leading that side of the merger. I considered them good people. I thought they had a really good platform to really push for a better raid scene at that summit. It turns out, Awakened is very similar to Aftermath except they care about playing by the rules just slightly more. That realization, that the soul of the good people in Taken lost in this merger, was a loss I was unwilling to care about. There's this massive amount of elitist attitude from people in that guild who think because they were Rampage, they were god's gift to Velious. I expected Detoxx and co to be a bunch of selfish pricks in that summit. Awakened not so much. The 2 are oh so very similar despite wanting to act like they are so different. There are decent people in both guilds. Plenty who think this arms race is beyond bleeping retarded. This isn't EQ. It's some weird "who can be the best people to neglect RL" to be able to swing your dick around the most between two fairly comparable guilds. I just don't understand why there can't be a balance between competition and human decency. Join the stupidity or let these literal dozens/hundreds of days played never result in any end game velious content. Fun.

Well, a bunch of 30 year old guys (or former guys) find that competition fulfilling and don't see a problem. I enjoy watching my grass grow more exciting than that scene. I have a pretty solid lawn game going on though, so I could be biased.

Sadly, this is why MMOs had to introduce instancing and such. Otherwise, the addicted 2% of the population that treat it as a full time job and ruins the fun the game was intended for. But hey, it's a classic server, I don't pay to play here, so it is what it is. I enjoy hanging out with my buds in game and vent. I prolly had better gear on live where the crazies weren't bound to one server, but I have better amigos here.

[Aviann]

Originally Posted by xexbis0 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And this is why I decided to leave. Despite the fact yall have to resort to making xexsessed jokes about tunare in mumble/guild chat and crap, Tunare had very little to do with my departure. It's kind of sad honestly how often I hear about my name. I honestly thought Awakened had a better moral code than they did. I knew the Taken officers and the ones leading that side of the merger. I considered them good people. I thought they had a really good platform to really push for a better raid scene at that summit. It turns out, Awakened is very similar to Aftermath except they care about playing by the rules just slightly more. That realization, that the soul of the good people in Taken lost in this merger, was a loss I was unwilling to care about. There's this massive amount of elitist attitude from people in that guild who think because they were Rampage, they were god's gift to Velious. I expected Detoxx and co to be a bunch of selfish pricks in that summit. Awakened not so much. The 2 are oh so very similar despite wanting to act like they are so different. There are decent people in both guilds. Plenty who think this arms race is beyond bleeping retarded. This isn't EQ. It's some weird "who can be the best people to neglect RL" to be able to swing your dick around the most between two fairly comparable guilds. I just don't understand why there can't be a balance between competition and human decency. Join the stupidity or let these literal dozens/hundreds of days played never result in any end game velious content. Fun.

Ok... so you've learned this about Awakened... have you ever been inside Aftermath?

[arsenalpow]

A lot of truth being dropped in this thread from Raev and Xexbis. Both have been in the middle of this shitty raid scene, except Raev acknowledges how awful it is and just stomaches it, and Xexbis walks away.

There's no path of progression for a guild that can't/won't do what Awakened/Aftermath are doing. There's no incentive for a guild to continue growing and advancing. Anyone coming up through the ranks right now will have to fight CSG and Anon/Div for anything in Kunark and those are seasoned raid forces. The next step is VP, welcome to full sock Aftermath, Awakened, and BDA. Hope you know the snap pull/train strats or you're fucked. Then there's shitty Velious content, more CSG and Anon/Div to contest, then good luck ever seeing ToV or city leaders.

The foot races aren't a solution, sorry.

[Phantasm]

Typical casuals. Always reaching ever farther with their palms outstretched. The reality is some of these nerds like to do what they do.

Short of a mass exodus, radical overhaul of the current raid scene(I.e. lockouts, rotations, etc) or complete reworking of the raid rules(shift of focus from FTE to a number of alternatives) be prepared for a very, very cold Winter on p99