Lock Server Until an Agreement is Met

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Originally Posted by sanforce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, then what happens when multiple people from one guild place alts in an existing Tier C guild. Is this guild going to be a default "alt guild" of the Tier A guild? How many members of a Tier A guild can have alts in the same secondary guild? What if multiple Tier A guilds band together and place just enough Alts in a pre-existing secondary guild to stay under said limits (raid cooperation!)? Who is going to track this?

The GMs already said that keeping track of everyone's alt is not practical from their end and it is not going to happen.

To demand an equal share of the proposed bag limit points, do you just need enough members to theoretically tackle a raid target? Three or Four groups of level 60s should be able to take the majority of these targets down. Place that many alts in a pre-existing Tier C guild, bam - that's a raid guild and deserves an equal share of the bag limit points.

Who needs to track it? It will come to light because people talk and it will be found out, no one needs to track anything, you guys are nuts.

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Originally Posted by Troubled [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You sure are pretty important for being in TMO 2 whole months now, ya?

LOL'd. That guy is a hardcore raider, he fought tooth and nail to put TMO where it is!

[sanforce]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Who needs to track it? It will come to light because people talk and it will be found out, no one needs to track anything, you guys are nuts.

People don't even need to coordinate this. You could just have a guild that is recruiting raid geared level 60s. Who cares what everyone's primary guild is. With enough level 60s, a guild is entitled to be referred to as a raid guild (apparently). Stop recruiting at that point, setup a new gmail account, have a secondary batphones go out, use rotation points and/or only target "low priority" mobs.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by sanforce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

IB = FE for all intents and purposes. If you raid together, then you get lumped into a single alliance.

People disputing FE signing off on IB's behalf in this case.

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Originally Posted by sanforce [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

People don't even need to coordinate this. You could just have a guild that is recruiting raid geared level 60s. Who cares what everyone's primary guild is. With enough level 60s, a guild is entitled to be referred to as a raid guild (apparently). Stop recruiting at that point, setup a new gmail account, have a secondary batphones go out, use rotation points and/or only target "low priority" mobs.

Nothing is stopping anyone from doing this to take advantage of the CAT A/B system or the Points system, or even the rotation system.

However, people will find out if one guild tries to do it on a large scale. TMO was found out pretty quick when they tried to move alts to a guild once before during a raid suspension.

[Elements]

Originally Posted by Autotune [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

LOL'd. That guy is a hardcore raider, he fought tooth and nail to put TMO where it is!

More personal attacks please. The bumps of support are appreciated.

[knix]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can not expect TMO, FE to have the same status as guild #9. Get real. Why play??

Sirken suggested 3 or 4 months ago to have the "Lower" Guilds to combine and knock TMO off. Did they do that... hell no.

So now all the lower guilds want something for basically nothing. Yeah right.
This has just turned into a welfare state just like in real life. Jesus just embarrassing as hell. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am sorry I just have to re quote this,, right on the money. Why didn't these smaller guilds join forces, to compete? Why did they not heed Sirken's wise advice?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Elements [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More personal attacks please. The bumps of support are appreciated.

Personal? That is not a personal attack lol.

[Nuggie]

Take this however you will, but know I haven't had my hand in the raiding scene for a few years. And I wont until Velious comes out at the very earliest. I'm done with current content. I'm just a casual scum that logs in a few days a week and plays alts or farms stuff(mostly for alts/friends). Also consider I'm one of the few members of VD that is still tagged. My view of TMO is somewhat less that amiable.

That said:

The 10 free raid days is a heck of a lot more than you had before. It's a "free dinner." Plus you can always compete the other 20 days of the month. This will work more in your favor when Velious comes out. Which brings me to my next point.

Rogean mentioning Velious might be released without raid content if things dont shape up means to me that Velious isn't that far away(relatively, considering the age of the server... a year away, maybe?) It was mentioned somewhere that beta will probably be this year. How long did Kunark Beta last? I dont recall exactly, but 2 months pops into my mind. Velious could be out this year, any agreement should reflect Velious raid content to some extent. Anything else is remarkably short-sighted.

I've been guilded in "plan B" guilds my entire raiding career. I very much doubt their member base would/could sustain 15 days of "hard" competition from the other "plan b" guilds for more than a few consecutive months before getting burnt out.

Also, how the "plan B" guilds are going to raid on "their" portion of the month should be worked into any agreement. Anything less will create bitter rivalries between them.

The proposal from TMO/FE seemed very reasonable, excepting a few minor details mentioned later in that thread. It puts forth a very stable base upon which a compromise can be reached.

Try to be reasonable. Don't abuse the position Nilb/Rog have given you.

Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by knix [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am sorry I just have to re quote this,, right on the money. Why didn't these smaller guilds join forces, to compete? Why did they not heed Sirken's wise advice?

Probably because people like the guilds they are in... idk... I guess not everyone likes being forced to make a guild with a roster size of 2-300 people just to be able to track hundreds of hours per week.


Nah, that sounds like an awesome classic experience.