AC softcap and low level hardcap discussion

[TytosOfEight]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Did two tests on Shiel Glimmerspindle.

=========================================
363 AC Test, Lodi Shield in Back Slot, Nothing in Secondary Slot
=========================================

DV, Count
19, 381
22, 22
25, 33
28, 28
32, 35
35, 39
38, 27
42, 37
45, 37
48, 38
52, 28
55, 32
58, 23
62, 41
65, 41
68, 41
72, 44
75, 31
78, 33
82, 9

Total Damage = 39236

=========================================
363 AC Test, Nothing in Back Slot, Lodi Shield in Secondary Slot
=========================================

DV, Count
19, 418
22, 29
25, 35
28, 45
32, 29
35, 22
38, 34
42, 36
45, 32
48, 33
52, 25
55, 29
58, 37
62, 32
65, 30
68, 31
72, 29
75, 30
78, 40
82, 4

Total Damage = 37110

As you can see, the damage reduction is greater when the Lodi Shield is in the Secondary Slot, rather than the Back Slot. I fought a level 40 mob as requested to show that the "squelch point" is not a factor.

This is starting to paint a much clearer picture. I have to admit, it’s a bit disappointing that the shield in the back slot doesn’t function the same way as it does in the offhand. That said, it’ll be fascinating to see if any AC items can act as a shield in the offhand, or if there’s something unique about the coding specifically for items labelled as both “shield” + “offhand.”

Keep up the good work, and just ignore the trolls.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

I forgot to mention, the two tests in the previous post were 1000 hits per test:

https://www.project1999.com/forums/s...&postcount=162

[Jimjam]

I’d bet it does have to be a shield, not just ac (since shield is clearly an existing flag as it is checked for bash). This would be a little sad for the shield of the slain unicorn (which is a piercing weapon but not a shield). I wonder how the fiery defender works for shield ac (which unlike a shield worn on the back does unlock bash, so is a shield in that regard but is AC weapon worn in primary).

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by TytosOfEight [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is starting to paint a much clearer picture. I have to admit, it’s a bit disappointing that the shield in the back slot doesn’t function the same way as it does in the offhand. That said, it’ll be fascinating to see if any AC items can act as a shield in the offhand, or if there’s something unique about the coding specifically for items labelled as both “shield” + “offhand.”

Keep up the good work, and just ignore the trolls.

Thanks for the support!

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I’d bet it does have to be a shield, not just ac (since shield is clearly an existing flag as it is checked for bash). This would be a little sad for the shield of the slain unicorn (which is a piercing weapon but not a shield). I wonder how the fiery defender works for shield ac (which unlike a shield worn on the back does unlock bash, so is a shield in that regard but is AC weapon worn in primary).

Yeah people have been saying items like orbs (Orb of the Infinite Void for example) do not count as shields for years. You are also correct that shields must have a special flag so bash can work properly.

I may do a test on this at some point for completions sake, but I haven't really seen anyone claim that any item with AC in the offhand counts as a shield. Nor do I expect this to be the case.

Haynar specified "Shield AC" when he was talking about it increasing softcap. He didn't say something generic like "Offhand AC".

The EQEMU code also has a specific check for shields.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for the support!



Yeah people have been saying items like orbs (Orb of the Infinite Void for example) do not count as shields for years. You are also correct that shields must have a special flag so bash can work properly.

I may do a test on this at some point for completions sake, but I haven't really seen anyone claim that any item with AC in the offhand counts as a shield. Nor do I expect this to be the case.

Haynar specified "Shield AC" when he was talking about it increasing softcap. He didn't say something generic like "Offhand AC".

The EQEMU code also has a specific check for shields.

On the wiki page discussion for OOIV a paladin says he can bash with it. It is probably considered as a shield for AC purpose. It also has a "shield" graphic so it tracks. Wouldn't be so sure about something like an iksar hide manual but I remember reading (not sure if still accurate) that the cloth softcap is much higher (something like 386 worn) because cloth lolz so I don't think it matters either way. Not sure I understand the reasoning behind that kind of exception though but for non raiders you'll never reach it.

I'd be more curious to see if spell AC moves the softcap or if it is considered as worn ac.

Good work guys by the way, very interesting.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On the wiki page discussion for OOIV a paladin says he can bash with it. It is probably considered as a shield for AC purpose. It also has a "shield" graphic so it tracks. Wouldn't be so sure about something like an iksar hide manual but I remember reading (not sure if still accurate) that the cloth softcap is much higher (something like 386 worn) because cloth lolz so I don't think it matters either way. Not sure I understand the reasoning behind that kind of exception though but for non raiders you'll never reach it.

I'd be more curious to see if spell AC moves the softcap or if it is considered as worn ac.

Good work guys by the way, very interesting.

Good catch on orb of infinite void. Looks like the wiki was updated in january 2025 to say it works as a shield. Glad to see someone tested it. Yeah something lile iksar hide manual should not count as shield AC.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

On the wiki page discussion for OOIV a paladin says he can bash with it. It is probably considered as a shield for AC purpose. It also has a "shield" graphic so it tracks. Wouldn't be so sure about something like an iksar hide manual but I remember reading (not sure if still accurate) that the cloth softcap is much higher (something like 386 worn) because cloth lolz so I don't think it matters either way. Not sure I understand the reasoning behind that kind of exception though but for non raiders you'll never reach it.

I'd be more curious to see if spell AC moves the softcap or if it is considered as worn ac.

Good work guys by the way, very interesting.

I believe the cloth cap was higher because they have lower returns on ac.

In the GoD era I swear cloth had lower cap, but decent returns over cap meant raid geared necromancers actually were silly good tanks.

It depends on where the code has been copypasted and how it has been tweaked.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe the cloth cap was higher because they have lower returns on ac.

In the GoD era I swear cloth had lower cap, but decent returns over cap meant raid geared necromancers actually were silly good tanks.

It depends on where the code has been copypasted and how it has been tweaked.

Yeah I know they get next to nothing over the softcap but so far it seems like everyone gets the same returns. Maybe cloth is an exception, but why not just use one formula and put lower AC on itemization? *shrugs*.

[Jimjam]

Does the sk epic work like paladin one? That it can bash and has AC?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Does the sk epic work like paladin one? That it can bash and has AC?

SK epic can bash. It doesn't have AC though. Probably due to the SK Epic's proc already being such a good defensive proc.