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#1
06-01-2011, 02:11 PM
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#2
06-01-2011, 01:31 PM
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Tracking is a burden, and it would be lessenned for everyone if the windows were shortened, which seems to be a pretty popular solution if you read this thread.
Again, you do realize that most raid mobs in classic EQ were on some sort of variance, right? No, it wasn't this large but you could never log in at an exact time to go kill nagafen. | ||
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#3
06-01-2011, 01:38 PM
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#4
06-01-2011, 01:39 PM
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Nedala, you're attacking me but i'm uttering much the same words you are... there WILL be clusterfucks. Can we avoid them? yes. Can we do it without variance? Absolutely. Remember, though, clusterfucks were classic. Avoiding clusterfucks with certain raiding rules was also classic. This 4 day window is not and it's unnecessary. | |||
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Last edited by Skope; 06-01-2011 at 01:42 PM..
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#5
06-01-2011, 01:40 PM
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There shouldn't be any variance at all. Pop everything after the next server crash/patch, and let guilds choose what they are to go for. It was like that on live. Why should it be any different here?
A guild can't be in 7 places at once. Want to call it a classic server, then run it like one. At least jacking up melee or spell casters for these patches are just like it was on live. Run one or two things on a code server and say its working,put it on live and in fact its bugged to hell. | ||
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#6
06-01-2011, 01:44 PM
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Fuck it, if you want to handle the situation of "More guilds can handle the mob than ever could on live", going to deviate from classic, then just make it spawn every 2 hours :P
"Ugh...we can't farm fear trash because CT keeps DTing all night!"
__________________
Monk of Bregan D'Aerth
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Last edited by Bruman; 06-01-2011 at 02:37 PM..
Reason: lawl
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#7
06-01-2011, 01:44 PM
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Here's what happens in the current raiding scene:
1) A mob spawns on a variance, unbeknownst to ANYONE except first and foremost to any trackers in the zone. 2) A mass communication is sent out to the guilds that have trackers in the zone that are aware of the event 3) Each guild that received the call mobilizes from any and every zone because they were doing other things, which in Kunark generally requires mobilization from multiple zones in multiple fashions whether it be OT hammers, evacs from dungeons, etc. 4) Those guilds buff and wait for a reasonable number of players and start pulling trash or engage the mob either by pulling to their raid or sending in the tank. USUALLY this results in all but one guild being caught off guard, so there are no FTE issues. 5) The mob dies. 6) The guild moves to a mobilization spot, continues about their business, or passes out loot. Under a no-variance solution: 1) A mob spawns at a known time due to any and all guilds that were previously in the zone watching the last time it was killed are aware of it (which unless trackers are still being utilized will not result in any gain on the part of any guild not currently tracking). 2) Prior to this spawn event, a mass communication is made well in advance for every knowledgeable guild to simply move to a zone and buff/camp out and log back in just minutes prior to it's spawn. 3) Upon spawn every and all guilds who were aware of the spawn will attempt to receive FTE and will either KS the mob and take the loot (GM intervention) or /petition to have the loot returned to them because they feel they were FTE (also GM intervention) 4) The mob dies or wipes the first raid force. 5) The loot is passed out and guilds go about their business/move to the next known spawn. In your concept I fail to see how poopsocking was reduced. Most importantly, however, would be that MORE GM intervention is required. In the current state the entire spawn is a surprise and therefore causes guilds to have to genuinely race for a mob instead of pre-mobilizing. THAT is the competition that the top tier guilds are vying for because as of right now we're all aware of how much hp the mobs have, the spells they cast, the resist they need, etc.; "Save 150 on poison, start the CH chain and throw in the tanks and we'll be good to go!" The result? Multiple guilds being ready, chomping at the bit to hit target nearest mob and throwing a javelin or shooting an arrow at the mob, hoping to get FTE. I don't see how that is any more related to skill because no effort is involved on the guild as a whole. As of right now, the moment a mob spawns the guilds have to put forth their best efforts to get there first and engage. NO raid mob is going to sit up for more than a few minutes unless it's in Sky, so you're going to have to be there before it spawns. Yes, the current raiding guilds do agree on this and that is because we KNOW we are going to go for the mob in any means possible. Nedala and Shiftin represent the same angle: no one is currently poopsocking to any large degree and each mob is a race because we now have old world and Kunark raid mobs to mobilize for - too many targets to poopsock. Would it be nice to shorten the windows? Hell yes! With enough targets after the expansion it would be the best choice made by the player base and GMs. Poopsocking may go up a little but GM intervention will still be minimal. As a bonus, trackers wouldn't have to track as long and could go about their business instead of staying home from work, not playing for days, eating bags of Funyuns, or whathaveyou. As of right now, everyone that is attempting the challenge of killing a raid mob is doing so and following the rules. Anyone not attempting within the bounds of the rules, which are pretty freeform, do not like the variance. My personal opinion is that I enjoy the variance but wish it was shorter. Rotations would be too easy and no variance would be horrid. Shiftin mentions some variance always existed for old world stuff. Was that added when old world dragons went to 52 and below only? Maybe that can be implemented~ Furthermore, the mentions of Velious are way off and any guild attempting those areas will be well aware of how difficult it is. The GMs are also well aware of this and will probably go to great lengths to make sure that the experience is as normalized as it can be. How? Simple player made rule just as it was on live: Kill the first dragon and get the rest - no variance on the rest of the mobs. Second edit: Skope: Instead of having me PM you, just post your thoughts, as that is the point of this thread that has popped up so many times before. Third edit: Skope: I'm also not disagreeing with you that variance isn't classic, but the alternative that you present doesn't sit well with one of the very people that sits in a zone for 4 to 12 hours a day on a tracking shift. | ||
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Last edited by Aadill; 06-01-2011 at 01:55 PM..
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#8
06-01-2011, 01:52 PM
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Aadill, you're doing the same thing Humwawa was: a strawman argument.
Dumping variance, as i noted on the previous page, raises other issues. Assuming FTE with no changes minus variance, though, is your own issue that you've just created. It requires rewriting it all and starting from a blank slate. Your scenario is just one in a dozen of scenarios that played themselves out daily on live servers. Furthermore, your own proposal of lessening the windows creates much the same problem -- clusterfuck(s). That one wasn't so implausible was it? But think about it further and you'll realize that many of them face much the same issue. There are ways to reduce GM involvement while keeping it strictly, or as close to, classic as we possibly can. The guilds willing to wake up at 3am will always get more targets. The guilds that wipe will lose their shots. There will still be tiered progression. Wake up people. | ||
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