Melee Worthlessness - The Biggest Balance Problem There Is

[NPC]

Originally Posted by Midoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is an extremely stupid point of view that stems from having a WoW player perspective on RPGs. Back in the days of D&D people didn't chase DPS because every class had a viable purpose in the adventure. Sure, it may be harder to solo as a mortal creature whose only skill is swinging weapons compared to a reality-bending caster class, but can you imagine this server without dedicated aggro magnets, corpse retrievers, pullers, trackers, off-healers who won't get one-shotted, versatile classes, etc.?

Then World of Warcraft comes out and all their classes are just differently themed DPS, and the only class variety is what color of fireball comes out of your ass when you faceroll.

Now suddenly the entire gaming landscape starts thinking MMORPGs are supposed to be retarded dick measuring contests where any class that isn't in the top 5 on average DPS logs is "bad."

Ya, cause god forbid every class be useful. You should have to play a class to 50 before you find out it sucks right? That's what happened to me in classic. F-ck that, played wizard to 50 then I quit. Grinding the xp trendmills an learning/knowing the xploited broken mechanics because the developers purposefully over powered classes they actually played themselves, of the early MMO's is being enshrined in some godforsaken perfect light. Nothing was ever perfect, but everyone tries to make it out like it was. Early MMO's just sucked even more than the new ones, but in many different AND MANY more ways. EQ was a buggy trashy piece of unbalanced garbage, and it still is.

[beargryllz]

Originally Posted by NPC [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ya, cause god forbid every class be useful. You should have to play a class to 50 before you find out it sucks right? That's what happened to me in classic. F-ck that, played wizard to 50 then I quit. Grinding the xp trendmills an learning/knowing the xploited broken mechanics because the developers purposefully over powered classes they actually played themselves, of the early MMO's is being enshrined in some godforsaken perfect light. Nothing was ever perfect, but everyone tries to make it out like it was. Early MMO's just sucked even more than the new ones, but in many different AND MANY more ways. EQ was a buggy trashy piece of unbalanced garbage, and it still is.

Wait didn't the dev guy play a paladin? The class who has one purpose, which is to cast DS and then log out to something useful?

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by beargryllz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wait didn't the dev guy play a paladin? The class who has one purpose, which is to cast DS and then log out to something useful?

Aradune was a ranger with a fiery defender clone iirc. He was the top brass and could circumvent the rules on his GM toon. The worker devs instead tilted the balance towards their player / non- staff toons.

[Xer0]

Originally Posted by Midoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is an extremely stupid point of view that stems from having a WoW player perspective on RPGs. Back in the days of D&D people didn't chase DPS because every class had a viable purpose in the adventure. Sure, it may be harder to solo as a mortal creature whose only skill is swinging weapons compared to a reality-bending caster class, but can you imagine this server without dedicated aggro magnets, corpse retrievers, pullers, trackers, off-healers who won't get one-shotted, versatile classes, etc.?

Then World of Warcraft comes out and all their classes are just differently themed DPS, and the only class variety is what color of fireball comes out of your ass when you faceroll.

Now suddenly the entire gaming landscape starts thinking MMORPGs are supposed to be retarded dick measuring contests where any class that isn't in the top 5 on average DPS logs is "bad."

There's definitely validity to the sentiment of imbalance that has 0 to do with WoW.

[unsunghero]

Originally Posted by Midoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Then World of Warcraft comes out and all their classes are just differently themed DPS, and the only class variety is what color of fireball comes out of your ass when you faceroll

Well, technically you are describing the evolution of WoW

In Vanilla and TBC classes had their uniqueness. Warlocks would summon, mages would port, rogues and druid had their stealth, etc. The big negatives on launch were 1.) the game was made far too easy (everyone recognizes this), and 2.) balancing issues (having paladins made alliance objectively better at PvE, certain specs of multiple classes were completely gimp, etc)

Then as WoW went on, the devs made a terrible idea in the name of balance to just homogenize all the classes. They gave self-heals to just about every DPS, stealth to mages and hunters and who knows what else (I haven't played since WOTLK), CC to literally everyone, etc. Every class became a homogenous blob

They still couldn't balance their PvP, which I believe was the entire reason for the homogenization of the classes. So that concept in my opinion was a complete failure and contributed to a noted decline in WoW's popularity as the game went on

[HalflingSpergand]

The dev guy? Gtfo out of here u scrub

[DMN]

Actually necros could do even more in those similar raid situations also assuming there was viable charm targets for them, as they could also land their taps on virtually everything... i think saw maybe two or three completely immune to tap raid enemies in all of vanila/kunark.

[Zuranthium]

Mage pet + damage shield + normal cast damage is definitely more DPS than a Rogue who doesn't have the best Kunark-era weapons. The best weapons of that era still might fall behind actually, I'd be interested in seeing exact parses. Plus, it was uncommon back in the day for someone to have even close to the best weapons in game (still true for any new server), whereas casters get a much higher baseline of capability automatically.

[Vaarsuvius]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mage pet + damage shield + normal cast damage is definitely more DPS than a Rogue who doesn't have the best Kunark-era weapons. The best weapons of that era still might fall behind actually, I'd be interested in seeing exact parses. Plus, it was uncommon back in the day for someone to have even close to the best weapons in game (still true for any new server), whereas casters get a much higher baseline of capability automatically.

Depends on the target too, mages being limited to fire and magic nukes. I yet have to understand why we don't have a single frost based DD...

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by Vaarsuvius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Depends on the target too, mages being limited to fire and magic nukes. I yet have to understand why we don't have a single frost based DD...

Mages don’t get a cold cos they can summon a mask.