A Shady Goblin (Ring Roll) in Warsilk Woods

[tycohunden]

I'm just glad we're getting along!
I'm so proud!

[masakist]

+1 for clickfest

[Senescant]

Ok, to appease everyone. I'm proposing we try something new for a week. Monday through Friday (US Eastern Time, based on assumed window start of 21h after turn in) will be clicks while Saturday and Sunday can be pre-rolls (casuals are usually busy neckbearding shit like jobs mon-fri). Or maybe switch it, but many people have let me know they're still in favor of clicking and most people that are in favor of rolling would rather preroll.

This allows the neckbeardiest of the neckbeards to 'compete' and allows the most casuals of casuals to pop in and roll.

Thoughts?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Senescant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, to appease everyone. I'm proposing we try something new for a week. Monday through Friday (US Eastern Time, based on assumed window start of 21h after turn in) will be clicks while Saturday and Sunday can be pre-rolls (casuals are usually busy neckbearding shit like jobs mon-fri). Or maybe switch it, but many people have let me know they're still in favor of clicking and most people that are in favor of rolling would rather preroll.

This allows the neckbeardiest of the neckbeards to 'compete' and allows the most casuals of casuals to pop in and roll.

Thoughts?

With all due respect for your efforts to try and make all the people happy all the time (both with this and with getting the agreement established in the first place), I think that is a terrible idea.

It's like I keep saying: it's hard enough getting everyone to agree to the system we already have. Let's not keep trying to make it fancy, let's stick with what has worked so far (both here and with Scout): a simple roll within seconds of a spawn.

Plus we certainly don't need to carve out exceptions in the agreement for the kind of people who won't respect agreements in the first place. Those people are losing more and more power with every roll, because each successful roll brings us closer to an established player agreement in the eyes of the staff (if that hasn't happened already). The next time someone thinks they can cut in line in front of 20 people and just turn-in (which hasn't even happened yet and may never even happen), that person will likely get banned, and then we'll never have to cater to those idiots ever again.

Everyone with a brain wants a fair system. Clicks are unfair. Rolls suck, everyone agrees, but they are the clear least worst/most fair option (until the staff implements an unclassic solution for this at least, and don't hold your breath waiting for that). We have that least worst option established right now. It got established because it was simple: it's the closest thing to having no rules and being a clickfest, without actually being a clickfest.

Let's not ruin a good thing by trying to complicate it, just to appease a couple anti-social losers who would prefer an unfair system they can exploit (eg. with autofire) to a fair system that gives everyone an equal chance.

Originally Posted by Para99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Intentional not classic variance is unfortunate. People knowing more about it applies to every aspect of such an old game. Plus the quest has plenty of classic bottlenecks. It's not like this is a Scout-like quest that can be done start to finish in 30 mins.

In another thread Nilbog said he wasn't aware the variance was unclassic, and that he'd fix it if it was. Several people then chimed in with evidence, so there is hope for a fix.

[Para99]

Originally Posted by Senescant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok, to appease everyone. I'm proposing we try something new for a week. Monday through Friday (US Eastern Time, based on assumed window start of 21h after turn in) will be clicks while Saturday and Sunday can be pre-rolls (casuals are usually busy neckbearding shit like jobs mon-fri). Or maybe switch it, but many people have let me know they're still in favor of clicking and most people that are in favor of rolling would rather preroll.

I have no intention of doing this quest any time in the near future even if the timer is fixed so take my opinion with a grain of salt, but two different systems will be much harder for both players and GM's to enforce, especially once the timer lands on prime time during the week.Nothing on this server appeases everyone. Just my opinion.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In another thread Nilbog said he wasn't aware the variance was unclassic, and that he'd fix it if it was. Several people then chimed in with evidence, so there is hope for a fix.

I was one of those people [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Posted that before your thread.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Para99 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was one of those people [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] Posted that before your thread.

Thank you!

[Senescant]

I would say that more than 30-40% of the people at yesterdays rolled expressed their preference to click to me. And I would say that many people who have supported the roll over clicking would rather pre-roll instead of sit around and roll on pop. Also several people who are on each side have interpreted what Cylock meant when he quoted Diamond to mean many different things. So its a balance of trying to keep people happy and trying to ensure that madness doesn't overtake it. Right now I'd say very few are happy with it.

I'm hoping that with everyone getting the opportunity they want, even if its not every day that people will be content.

I'm not as worried about autofire as much. The quest will be relevant until Luclin is released for p99...so if a few people cheat the system that way they'll be out of the way in a relatively small amount of time.

And yes, a fix for the unclassic variance would be amazing.

We'll see what happens...

[polishanarchy]

Thought the whole point of this thread was to avoid clickfests. Roll has been working so far...

[Senescant]

Originally Posted by polishanarchy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thought the whole point of this thread was to avoid clickfests. Roll has been working so far...

The problem is keeping an agreement when 1/3 of the people don't agree. If someone were to come along make it a rule or something....

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Senescant [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem is keeping an agreement when 1/3 of the people don't agree. If someone were to come along make it a rule or something....

Every Shady that has ever existed on P99 except the first two have been rolled on successfully. Each time something like twenty people all agreed, and not a single person violated the roll. This has been going on, successfully for several days now. If there was any question of whether a player agreement existed before, it very clearly exists now.

And I just flat out don't buy this 1/3 number. I've been at every roll, and there's been one only person consistently wanting to roll(fixed)click (Siryado). At some rolls there's been maybe one or two (but not always even that) people threatening to join Siryado. Even so, both Siryado and those people have rolled with everyone else, every single time.

It makes absolutely no sense to change a 100% successful and (again, every sane person agrees) fair system just to appeal to Siryado and the handful of people who either want to cheat with Autofire, or are too stupid to realize they will lose to Autofire cheaters. It wouldn't make sense if there was no risk, and there's a HUGE risk that any change will break this very delicate balance we've established.

So please, you and others have worked very hard to get this roll established. Stop trying to make it fancy with special times, special days, or special anything. It needs to be just one step more complicated than a clickfest: that's the only way it's managed to succeed as much as it has.