Scout Roll Agreement 2017

[Nathaniel]

From reading this thread now it seems those who don't agree are the ones posting the most. Some even seem to wanna give the image that they are "winning". However the poll result speak for itself.

I also wonder how many of those who voted "no" here are currently frequenting Scout rolls? Proably not many. If we would take this poll among the people that are actually going out to WW every 10 hours, the difference between "yes" and "no" would be much, much bigger.

Also, the "problem" is not as big as it may seem in this thread. Most scout rolls are going really well and most people respects that they are rolling for their own character.

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It seems to me this could all be solved very simply. When you agree to the terms of the roll, you should have to specify whether or not you are rolling for yourself. This would have no effect on your winning the roll. Why? Because the roll is about avoiding autofire and similar macro clicking issues, nothing else.

So why declare that it's not for you? Because a lot of people who happily help with the fight after may not want to help someone doing it for a friend, or doing it to sell. If they're going to help someone, it seems reasonable that they should get to know who they're ultimately helping.

Maybe I'm missing something, but that seems like the option that will satisfy the most people. Equally important, it would actually be viable (since, as we have to remember, everything about this is "opt-in"), because as part of a valid player-made agreement the GMs could intervene if someone lies.

Good post. I understand that we can't force the agreement on everyone, but for those rolling to give away lootrights for whatever reason, please let this be known before pull so people have the choice of not helping with the kill. You should bring your own force in this case imo.

[Legidias]

You dont win this by exclusion (as also IRL several points in history have shown). You exclude people from being able to sell, then they show up with a separate roll to sell and it turns into clickfest.

No one here yet on the arbitrary loot side has answere why YOU deserve it more than someone who has showed up to just as many as you have, even though they might have won it already.

No, it is entirely people trying to decide what others can do with loot from a mob. It is not about upgrade, it is about people who feel self entitled to loot. If youre gonna argue about its not about time, then sure, you have even 1 less leg to stand on. THen you have no arguement whatsoever as to who """"deserves"""" loot.

And again, if you can convince 20 people to show up to roll for you, good job on having 20 peopel willing to sacrifice their time for you.

I understand your side as well, and Im trying to calmly explain to YOU how it is a biased way to do loot. This is not a loot council raid, you do not get to designate who gets loot.

[Canelek]

Aside from gaining CoV faction and walking to quest giver within Skyshrine, is there actually any effort involved prior to the turn in?

As for the actual encounter, if I understand correctly, the folks rolling on the opportunity help with the encounter, since it is rather silly to have to bring a group in the current landscape.

So, with this quest being extremely short (faction work aside) and simple, what is the hangup aside from potential profitability (plat or RMT)? Despite the very nice quest rewards, let's not pretend these items take extreme effort (or DKP) to achieve.

That being said, I am all for a roll and all for the winner of said roll doing whatever he wants with it just like every other casual greed item. It may not be fair with the /more dedicated/ players bringing their hairy pals along to weigh the odds, but it is not like one has to being a group along to have a shot, and it is sure as shit better than competing a click with some jackass with a macro-app thingy.

And fair is not exactly classic. Classic is the all about the "vehement dedication" of playtime and general neckbeard strength.

On Veeshan there was this one guy named Eudas who 6-boxed content and pissed off most people. But at the end of the day, dude had six boxes going around 1999-2001 or so, which was pretty damn dedicated. Dude probably had toenails entwining with the pepperoni-laced neckbeard hair due to said dedication.

That was certainly classic. Weird as shit, but classic.

What were we talking about?

Er

Yeah

[Jimjam]

In fairness to those who disagree with the agreement of course they are less likely to attend participate in an agreement they disagree with.

I definitely benefitted from the "winner supply tools / loots disc" rules on my ranger. The rest of my toons are either wrong faction or of a level where I feel I'd be taking advantage of the system if I rolled so I don't tend to attend so much any more.

I probably would attend more often if I were permitted to donate my roll to another player. I'm not too interested in accumulating plat I won't spend but I do enjoy helping out my allies. As far as I understand there is still always an excess of people attending, so by providing a warm body I wouldn't really be helping anyone at this point.

[scaura]

Eduas the Shanan with 6 boxes and got the first lvl 65 welcome back memories!

[Teako]

Originally Posted by AdrenolineLove [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hello friends!

This needs to be said on the forums and agreed upon because apparently people think they can break the rules and use the excuse "it doesn't say that anywhere" even though everyone who has been attending is well aware of the rules.

Sirken has stated that he will be enforcing player made rules so it is imperative that we get people agreeing on this on the forums so we have something to petition when people decide they want to do whatever they want.

THE RULES ARE AS FOLLOW FOR ROLLING SCOUT CHARISA:

1) YOU MUST HAVE THE TOOLS. You win the roll, you turn in tools, you loot the disc. If you do not follow this rule you will be petitioned. This is to prevent someone with 40 friends showing up who don't need it and creating a weighted roll for that one person.

2) PLEASE STAY AND HELP. This is not required but more of a courtesy. It's a 5-10 minute ordeal, dont be a salty loser, help the people who are one day going to help you in return. We all have real lives and sometimes you cant always stick around, but if you can, please do.

3) IN THE EVENT YOU CLICKFEST. You will be petitioned. You are breaking the playerwide agreement. The entire reason we're doing this is to keep it fair for the people showing up. Clickfest has been proven to be a shit show and I've heard it from a former GM that they are aware people can edit .ini files to insta-turn in. We will not be clickfesting anymore.

4) ROLLING TIME. We all agree to roll at a specific time, usually about 5 minutes or so before the spawn time. You will be allowed to roll up until Scout pops. Your roll will not be negated just because you didn't roll the exact 30 seconds everyone else rolls. All rolls are valid until Scout pops.

May the gods of your choice bless your dice.

Absolutely none of this is enforceable. Player made agreements over raids are enforced because they matter, but not over random misc bullshit like "lists", "roll times" etc. You want to have a butt-buddy fest and share the love CSG style? Sure. Go ahead... But nobody's getting banned over handing in a scout charisa without rolling. Just wont happen. Not classic at all as well.

I know you're *trying* to force something you *think* is good here. I get it. But genuinely, nobody has to do this at all. It's completely voluntary, and if someone walks up and hands it in petitioning them will only waste staff time deleting your petition doing nothing. All any player at all has to do is say, "I did not agree or consent to being a part of this roll." and that's the end of the story. Even if they agreed last spawn to roll, they are not bound to any form of internet-cyber-contractz to roll for any reason. Threatening to petition people for DANK GM BANZ over something you made up is silly.

Just don't play with them any more or help them if you don't agree with what they're doing. Threatening them is just immature.

Sorry to have been the bearer of bad news.

[thiz1234]

Still looking to buy Disc loot rights!

[Legidias]

You realize not everyone voting yes are voting for his rules? People voting yes to roll, not to loot council.

Thread is misleading from the start. OP states this as if its only this way or click. Which is completely untrue. Just be true to roll, you roll, you win mob. End. Dont need to make it more complicated and people arent entitled to loot just because they dont have it. I dont have it, you dont see me complaining about muh entitled loot.

[Legidias]

Because people have explicitly said it in this here thread. Its no assumption at all. I didnt say everyone, I said that not everyone voting yes is agreeing with OP. They just agree with a roll.

Keep on trucking with your loot entitlement tho. No one yet has answered why they believe they deserve loot more than someone else.

[Naethyn]

Server staff have said multiple times that if the community comes together and establishes an agreement it will be enforced.