Raid Suspending best idea GM's had in a long time

[Kagey]

rotations on Dro consisted of 2 guilds only. new expansions allowed other guilds to enter zones that were no longer populated.

This will not work with 8 guilds.

[Ikon]

Of btw those logs are from.... Fenin Ro - link. You may think your memory of 17 years ago is good but its assuredly not good.

[FatMice]

Ikon maybe you should have keep reading...

Sony's answer to my emails. Basically they said sorry you were removed from a zone because of an issue with 2 OTHER guilds.

Sure makes perfect sense to me now.


Greetings again,

This was done due the to lack of cooperation and prior issues with this conflict. It was to keep the issues that were occurring at bay and under control. The matter as I have stated was something that I can not go in details on, again I do apologize that you were removed, but no, we normally will not take such measures. This is something that we try to avoid at all costs, but the circumstances at the time called for the actions that were taken.

May the spirits guard your travels,

GM Daleynn
Heather Guthridge
Sony Online Entertainment
hguthridge@soe.sony.com
When responding to this email, please include our previous correspondence. Thank you.

-----Original Message-----
From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Sent: Monday, March 15, 2004 11:38 PM
To: Guthridge, Heather
Subject: RE: In Game Concerns on Fennin Ro


Okay I understand why it happened but my concern is should it have happened? Does a GM have the right to tell anyone zoning into a zone to leave? Also is this something that my guild can request when we are doing events and scripts in certain zones specifically the elemental zones where zone lag can cause an event to be failed.

Thanks

-----Original Message-----
From: Guthridge, Heather [mailto:hguthridge@soe.sony.com]
Sent: Saturday, March 13, 2004 4:54 PM
To: XXXXXXXXXX
Subject: RE: In Game Concerns on Fennin Ro

Greetings,

This is GM Daleynn, I am sorry about the issues you had in Plane of Water the other evening. I do apologize for the matter, but you zoned in during an issue that had turned bad between two other guilds at that time. I can not go into details of the matter as you were not involved in the main issue, but will again apologize that you were caught in the midst of it.

May the spirits guard your travels,

GM Daleynn
Heather Guthridge
Sony Online Entertainment
hguthridge@soe.sony.com
When responding to this email, please include our previous correspondence. Thank you.

[maskedmelon]

Dont really need our memories :c Your posts do a pretty good job of invalidating your argument on their own :/ im sorry :c

Anyway, who excited to see what happens as these suspensions end? ^^

[icedwards]

Gonna go back to the way it was before until GMs step in, it's not rocket surgery.

[nyclin]

if you read that thread, posters explain that the Talons of Fire guy was asked to leave because his guild and the other guild had a history of disputes/griefing over the coirnav event

they also talk about rotations:

Rotations between my guild and others typically include the agreement that when one engages, the other(s) evacuate the zone. If it comes to a petition the GM would enforce this anyway. It occurs to me that there was a reason the GM was present. They don't make a habit of popping in on Fennin Ro server just to make nice-nice :/

this quote, to me, indicates that the rotations were player agreements which were given teeth by the GM staff when necessary - pretty much exactly as things occur here.

The only rotation I know of is the one between TMO, Severed, ToF for Time.

indicating that your log does not show a GM enforcing a rotation, but instead a GM taking action to prevent griefing

you are correct in that guides/gms enforced the pnp, but the pnp did not include raid rotations and raid disputes were generally hands-off unless there was exploiting or griefing involved

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by maskedmelon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dont really need our memories :c Your posts do a pretty good job of invalidating your argument on their own :/ im sorry :c

Anyway, who excited to see what happens as these suspensions end? ^^

They're not my posts they're time relevant posts from the producer of Everquest, guides, GM's and as I said before 60+ and counting people who were playing at the time.

They prove beyond doubt that there was a PnP, that guilds and players were forced to share, and not just camps, they show that GM's were active in disputes between players and they have a shit ton more relevant then your opinion.

But I imagine you'll continue to pretend you don't see any evidence and that your opinion > all of the above. Thanks for the laughs.

[Ikon]

Originally Posted by nyclin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if you read that thread, posters explain that the Talons of Fire guy was asked to leave because his guild and the other guild had a history of disputes/griefing over the coirnav event

they also talk about rotations:



this quote, to me, indicates that the rotations were player agreements which were given teeth by the GM staff when necessary - pretty much exactly as things occur here.



indicating that your log does not show a GM enforcing a rotation, but instead a GM taking action to prevent griefing

you are correct in that guides/gms enforced the pnp, but the pnp did not include raid rotations and raid disputes were generally hands-off unless there was exploiting or griefing involved

Exactly. Meaning if that same GM was in NTov and a guild was already in there and some other guild zoned in and started training dragons over the top of them to entrance that 2nd guild would have been ported out of NTov. Right?

[nyclin]

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They prove beyond doubt that there was a PnP

nobody disputed this

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that guilds and players were forced to share

wrong - the thread you linked, if anything, just casts doubt on this idea

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and not just camps, they show that GM's were active in disputes between players and they have a shit ton more relevant then your opinion.

how is this different from p99? gms are active in player disputes every day, including raid disputes. things they do not do: enforce rotations (except where agreed to by players) or stop people from doing content so another group can "get their turn"

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Exactly. Meaning if that same GM was in NTov and a guild was already in there and some other guild zoned in and started training dragons over the top of them to entrance that 2nd guild would have been ported out of NTov. Right?

sure, what does this have to do with rotations? your argument was that GMs enforced rotations on live servers, now we're talking about whether or not GMs took action against griefing

pick a point and stick to it

[maskedmelon]

Originally Posted by Ikon [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They're not my posts they're time relevant posts from the producer of Everquest, guides, GM's and as I said before 60+ and counting people who were playing at the time.

They prove beyond doubt that there was a PnP, that guilds and players were forced to share, and not just camps, they show that GM's were active in disputes between players and they have a shit ton more relevant then your opinion.

But I imagine you'll continue to pretend you don't see any evidence and that your opinion > all of the above. Thanks for the laughs.

Not my opinion, it's Reason :c And you see it too now, it's the reason your argument shifting from rotations to sharing now. Just because you are wrong, doesn't mean there aren't other ways to get a different raid environment. Discussion is good, but you don't have to try to strong arm staff with dubious reasoning to get what you want. How is that any different from the rule lawyering by raid guilds or the competitive "take whatever your can" mentality that you are against? It's not, your attempting to force others to do what you want. Fortunately, you just didn't understand what those posts you shared meant. I wouldn't let it bother you though. There are other avenues for discussion and we all look silly sometimes ^^