Big Thanks to Cloki from Omni

[jcr4990]

Holy crap guys 21 pages in 3 days? I've been away from the forums for a few days I can't keep up. Somebody give me TL;DR? Bunch of FAT kids arguing that their OBVIOUS exploitation isn't exploiting? Am I close?

[Nibblewitz]

Originally Posted by jcr4990 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Holy crap guys 21 pages in 3 days? I've been away from the forums for a few days I can't keep up. Somebody give me TL;DR? Bunch of FAT kids arguing that their OBVIOUS exploitation isn't exploiting? Am I close?

That's only half of it; Swish is now exploiting RnF for post count.

[Daldaen]

Basically the issue was that guilds who allied very frequently didn't share slots in the rotation except for Gorrnaire which no one cared about.

On VS and Trakanon and CT and Inny, most every guild occupied a solo slot on the rotation, and smaller guilds who were incapable of solo killing most of these mobs during the majority of hours in the day, were able to team up, only 1 guild drops to bottom of rotation and then team up again when the other guild was up top. This lead to a situation where two equally sized forces... Guild A + Guild B = Guild C in total characters at raids.... Had Guild A+Guild B alliance killing mobs twice as often as Guild C.

Not because the small guilds were superior in quality of characters or strategy, or because the larger guild was a Zerg. Simply because alliancing didn't drop you to the bottom of the rotation if you were allying when your slot wasn't up yet.

The rotation went through many iterations of dumbness. But the ending of it was quite equally dumb.

Edit: how is this not RNF yet???

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Basically the issue was that guilds who allied very frequently didn't share slots in the rotation except for Gorrnaire which no one cared about.

On VS and Trakanon and CT and Inny, most every guild occupied a solo slot on the rotation, and smaller guilds who were incapable of solo killing most of these mobs during the majority of hour of the day, were able to team up, only 1 guild drops to bottom of rotation and then team up again when the other guild was up top. This lead to a situation where two equally sized forces... Guild A + Guild B = Guild C in total characters at raids.... Had Guild A+Guild B alliance killing mobs twice as often as Guild C.

Not because the small guilds were superior in quality of characters or strategy, or because the larger guild was a Zerg. Simply because alliancing didn't drop you to the bottom of the rotation if you were allying when your slot wasn't up yet.

Edit: how is this not RNF yet???

Which is why the bigger 3 guilds wanted change, we offered new rules, the small guilds told us to go pound sand, and class R FFA became a thing. I guess that's exactly the same thing as BDA ruined the server though.

[Ravager]

They didn't get the facts straight the first time, they won't get them right this time.

[Juryiel]

The thing with agreements is, if both sides of the agreement are not benefiting in some way that is reasonable to them the agreement will collapse and pointing fingers will just waste your time.

I think if the 'Big 3' stuck to the arguments you're making now about how to allocate rotation slots in a way everyone thinks is fair and what to do about stuff that spawns at 3AM, rather than the whole ultimatum gatekeeper stuff where mobs were locked behind other mobs that were more difficult, you would have made more headway to coming to a mutual understanding and agreement because many of your concerns were actually reasonable.

But being the big fish in the small pond I guess gives you a sense of power and entitlement in negotiations since maybe you're giving up hypothetically more and getting a smaller benefit, and I get that. But hey at least it's prepared BDA for Velious mobilization and racing with Forsaken and Rampage as you claimed right? Right? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Juryiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The thing with agreements is, if both sides of the agreement are not benefiting in some way that is reasonable to them the agreement will collapse and pointing fingers will just waste your time.

I think if the 'Big 3' stuck to the arguments you're making now about how to allocate rotation slots in a way everyone thinks is fair and what to do about stuff that spawns at 3AM, rather than the whole ultimatum gatekeeper stuff where mobs were locked behind other mobs that were more difficult, you would have made more headway to coming to a mutual understanding and agreement because many of your concerns were actually reasonable.

But being the big fish in the small pond I guess gives you a sense of power and entitlement in negotiations since maybe you're giving up hypothetically more and getting a smaller benefit, and I get that. But hey at least it's prepared BDA for Velious mobilization and racing with Forsaken and Rampage as you claimed right? Right? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What mobilization? If you want a Velious target you need to be willing to sock for up to 16 hours with a raid sitting at character select. ToV mobs are pulled in under a minute to the entrance or west or HoT exit. Kael mobs are literally snap pulled with coth and a TL box, train to EW and a peel to WL. That's not mobilzation like an earthquake. That's hardcore sock power.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Juryiel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think if the 'Big 3' stuck to the arguments you're making now about how to allocate rotation slots in a way everyone thinks is fair and what to do about stuff that spawns at 3AM, rather than the whole ultimatum gatekeeper stuff where mobs were locked behind other mobs that were more difficult, you would have made more headway to coming to a mutual understanding and agreement because many of your concerns were actually reasonable.

I could be mistaken, but wasn't there a couple months of negotiations before the ultimatum was made? And wasn't the ultimatum made because the other guilds didn't want to negotiate anything and continue business as usual? I still feel bad for Anichek about all the time he wasted.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by BillSmith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ironic how the only ones who "get the facts straight" are the people everyone says don't know what they are talking about... As proven by The BDA RNF threads, facts aren't something BDA cares about

That's some fine rhetoric, no substance though. You should calm down a little and present some of these "facts" if you want to make a case, otherwise it's just angry spin.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by BillSmith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What you call rhetoric I call proven by the multiple BDA RNF threads all claiming the same thing but after weeks still can't even prove it. Post some logs or a fraps because until then you all are just lying jokes who have already admitted in this thread to being piles of shit...

Proven by vague allusions to RnF threads? Post some logs or fraps of what? Are you afraid to get into specifics because you can't back up a thing your saying? What exactly are you ranting on about?