Public Raid Petitions: P99 Freedom of Information Act

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Juntsie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread and extent of lawyerquesting is so unclassic that it make Juntsie vomit up Froglocks he ate for supper four days ago.

GM should simply not devote dis much effort to raid disputes and bickering that apply to only small amount of players on server. GM resources better spent doing other tings.

Lawyerquesting is not classic and should be bashed in face.

GMs are currently devoting more time than would be required under a system such as that being proposed.

[Juntsie]

Why shuld GM devote so much time and resource to public petition process dat benefit only minute, tiny amount of players who after multiple years cannot seem to figure out how to share tings and bash together for fun? Just cuz said players have longest neck beards, desire most pixilz, and cry loudest, does not mean dat dey should be given undue consideration or expect dat staff will review petitions pursuant to lawyerquest legal procedures.

Such consideration should not be given. Burden is not equitable or gud for volunteer GMs, who stand to turn into magistrate petition review robots. It not gud for server. Forced equitable rotation may not be classic but it much lesser evil dan current silly rules, laughable disputes, and proposed burdensome petition process. If dis objectionable, justice shuld be otherwise be swift, based on simple undisputed facts, and executed in-game, classic style.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Juntsie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why shuld GM devote so much time and resource to public petition process dat benefit only minute, tiny amount of players who after multiple years cannot seem to figure out how to share tings and bash together for fun? Just cuz said players have longest neck beards and cry loudest, does not mean dat dey should be given undue consideration or expect dat staff will review petitions pursuant to lawyerquest legal procedures.

Such consideration should not be given. Burden is not equitable or gud for volunteer GMs, who stand to turn into magistrate petition review robots. It not gud for server. Forced equitable rotation may not be classic but it much lesser evil dan current silly rules and disputes.

Well GMs and owner of the server have said that forced rotations will not happen, so it is up to the community and GMs to figure out how to mediate disputes.

It seems you agree that the current system of closed petitions is broken and in need of a fix. How are the volunteer GMs already not magistrate petition review robots? They choose to devote more hours per week right now handling petitions than some people work.

[JayN]

Open petitions, let the decree ring throughout the land! Let there be no more hiding of treachery or deceit, lay it all on the table for everyone to see. End the twisted shielded arguments.

[Ella`Ella]

Conversations like this just create a forum for more lawyerquesting to take place.

First of all, kill variance - that solves most problems.

Second of all, make penalties for lawyerquest. If you submit a frivolous petition or are found that it doesn't hold up, you eat a 1-week suspension.

Make it fun! You get raid 3 petitions a month - use 'em wisely.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well GMs and owner of the server have said that forced rotations will not happen, so it is up to the community and GMs to figure out how to mediate disputes.

It seems you agree that the current system of closed petitions is broken and in need of a fix. How are the volunteer GMs already not magistrate petition review robots? They choose to devote more hours per week right now handling petitions than some people work.

Did GMs even collect evidence of infractions and mediate disputes outside of the game in classic?

[Juntsie]

Originally Posted by Ele [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well GMs and owner of the server have said that forced rotations will not happen, so it is up to the community and GMs to figure out how to mediate disputes.

It seems you agree that the current system of closed petitions is broken and in need of a fix. How are the volunteer GMs already not magistrate petition review robots? They choose to devote more hours per week right now handling petitions than some people work.

Juntsie find it hard to believe that GM devote more time to petition process now than if petition process is approved and implemented. Juntsie not dispute dat GM spend large amount of time right now resolving unfortunate raid dispute (perhaps too much time - Juntsie support swift, in-game justice). But petition process stand to create large body of case-law that GM must reference to promote "consistent" ruling. It stand to promote lawyerquesting through painfully unclassic process. It take GM out of game and onto forum to review voluminous petition materials. Dis is painfully unclassic and against spirit of game and dis project.

What next when lawyerquesters still whine about resolution and accuse GM of crap? Amicus briefing? Supplemental briefing? Motion for Petition Reconsideration? Notice of Petition Appeal Process before 3-GM Panel? Petition for Discretionary Review by Supreme Court of Rogean?

NOT CLASSIC.

Juntsie again tink dat lawyerquest need bash in face. Dis is 20 year old game dat supposed to be about bashing, eatting tings, and drinking tings for fun. Therefore, Juntsie advise all to not take raid dispute so seriously. Classic GM did not. Only time did when involve exploits - WHAT DAT? EXPLOIT WARDER ON Z-AXIS?! BAN GUILD, ROFLZZZZZZZ.

[Ravager]

Juntsie should have a green name.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Juntsie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why shuld GM devote so much time and resource to public petition process dat benefit only minute, tiny amount of players who after multiple years cannot seem to figure out how to share tings and bash together for fun? Just cuz said players have longest neck beards, desire most pixilz, and cry loudest, does not mean dat dey should be given undue consideration or expect dat staff will review petitions pursuant to lawyerquest legal procedures.

Such consideration should not be given. Burden is not equitable or gud for volunteer GMs, who stand to turn into magistrate petition review robots. It not gud for server. Forced equitable rotation may not be classic but it much lesser evil dan current silly rules, laughable disputes, and proposed burdensome petition process. If dis objectionable, justice shuld be otherwise be swift, based on simple undisputed facts, and executed in-game, classic style.

Take it up with the GMs, then. We, as the players, can only work within the confines that they present us. We have been explicitly told, many times, that full rotations and completely hands-off GMing are not options. We have only two choices. Keep the system as it is, or modify the current system to be more efficient.

It is absurd that we'd not opt to make a bad system better when it's the only one we've got.

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[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Ella`Ella [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Conversations like this just create a forum for more lawyerquesting to take place.

First of all, kill variance - that solves most problems.

Second of all, make penalties for lawyerquest. If you submit a frivolous petition or are found that it doesn't hold up, you eat a 1-week suspension.

Make it fun! You get raid 3 petitions a month - use 'em wisely.

This.

Holy shit this.

Do you know why people send in all these petitions? Cause they are salty they lost and wasted 3-6 people's time staring at a wall for 16 hours doing nothing.

You HAVE rules that prevent old-age, 2011 poopsocking. You cannot sit on, camp at or bind at spawn points. You cannot FTE with someone at a bind point. You HAVE the rules in place to prevent the poopsocking which you site as the sole reason for unclassic Variance.

If people spent 30min buffing up and camping out before a window then spent 15-min waiting to batphone the spawn, and they lose. Tough shit. Unless it's something extreme like malicious training, they won't really care much that they lost a dragon. Less than an hour of time off their back, meh. We spend more waiting on boats to get to docks.

But with the current situation, losing dragons BLOWSSSSSSSS after spending so long camped out, or worse, wall staring (tracking).

If you want leave a small amount of randomness (10min+/- is fine) so that there isn't any CotH Ducking or other nonsense.... Fine, I'll give my approval "of non-classic change on basis of 5 years Kunark" stamp.

This will reduce petitions
This will increase casual involvement in raid scene
Due to current setup it will spread out spawn times after reset due to Class R inevitably waiting to kill their mob for hours until they have sufficient force etc.

Overall the raid game becomes more enjoyable for all participants. Other than the 0 people who like staring at a wall for 16 hours.