Building a Mosque??? WTF

[Toony]

Originally Posted by purist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hey, Toony. I'm trying to learn how to make fallacious arguments like you do.

Which fallacious argument would that be?

[Toony]

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Comparing criminals to people following their ass-backwards laws, awesome logic!

Who's the criminal in your scenario?

[purist]

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Comparing criminals to people following their ass-backwards laws, awesome logic!

When white, Christian men kill women = Totally unrelated to misogyny or oppression of women, it's just a random criminal act

When brown, Muslim men kill and oppress women = Islam!!!1! hurr derrp!!

[Harrison]

Originally Posted by purist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When white, Christian men kill women = Totally unrelated to misogyny or oppression of women, it's just a random criminal act

When brown, Muslim men kill and oppress women = Islam!!!1! hurr derrp!!

Except, there is a LAW there that supports them. What part of this don't you grasp?

We have laws against it. They have laws that support it. Simple.

[Taxi]

To me i think "fanatic" islam is a threat. It is hugely oppressive of women, will chop your head off for saying you dont beleive in god etc etc... But there are moderate muslims, just like theres crackpots christians who bomb abortion clinics and the martin luther king type christian.

Where the buck stops for me, is when this fringe of islam is used as an excuse to perpetrate all kinds of oppression against muslims that might push them toward a more fanatic fringe of islam. Say when we bomb their weddings and kill half their family in afghanistan without so much of a OOPS! SORRY!. To me this is what the hysteria against the NY mosque represents. Using a fanatical fringe of islam to oppress the rest of muslims, and why not, every fucking brown foreigner as well, because... well, just because.

[Itchybottom]

Originally Posted by Harrison [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except, there is a LAW there that supports them. What part of this don't you grasp?

We have laws against it. They have laws that support it. Simple.

This is a morality issue that has no doubt existed since the Code of Hammurabi was scribed. There really isn't a right or wrong when involving law (ie, stoning someone to death.) That is up to the people who established and follow those laws in their own respective invisible line land masses.

I don't condone loss of life, but I can't readily argue against a societies' system that has worked for them for longer than the country I live in either.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by purist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You gotta love the colonial feminists in this thread. These are people who, in any other context, behave as the noted male chauvinists and misogynists that they are. But when the topic turns to the Middle East or Islam, all of a sudden they're champions of the feminist cause, advocating a worldwide campaign of waging wars for the liberation of women (on behalf of the White Man, of course).

That's not to say there aren't any valid critiques of womens' status in different Muslim societies, each with their own colonial history. But the type of reductionism many of my fellow atheists engage in, wherein it's all inherently religion's fault.. "The oppresion of women in ___ country is all ___ religion's fault" is just obdurate, willful ignorance. I don't believe you can view religion in a vacuum, as an isolated force removed from any broader political context. The predominant factor determining the role Islam plays and character it takes from Afghanistan to Bosnia to Indonesia is going to reflect the material conditions of that country. This is as opposed to it being a reflection of the inherent character of the religion. Religion is rooted in specific socio-economic conditions and until those are transformed simply dealing with the superstructure means nothing. Base determines superstructure. These issues are linked to culture, misogyny, poverty and above all: the male fear of female advancement.

Then again, that type of dialogue is way above the heads of most people here. Carry on.

This is perhaps the most lucid, well thought out piece of writing anyone has ever posted on the p99 boards..

However, it does nothing more than make me think of these filthy peasants arguing with King Arthur:

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[Enderenter]

Originally Posted by purist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're right. The six stonings in Iran that took place between 2006 and 2008, as well as the seven women currently in Iranian jail under stoning sentences is a clear example of the savage oppression of women.

Unfortunately, oppression of women is worldwide phenomenon, and two years' worth of stonings in Iran is just two days worth of female oppression here in the U.S., measured in homicides alone. Unfortunately, there will always be chauvinists like yourself who will choose to be selective about which women they want to show solidarity with and which ones they choose to ignore, in order to back up your biased and ignorant view of Islam and the Middle East.

So yes, Toony, you ARE the quintessential example of a colonial feminist as I described it: A person who couldn't care less about feminism at home, but suddenly champions feminist values when the topic comes up to the rest of the world.

Thanks for proving my point.

Wow, nice research. I'm impressed.

[Eternal-Elf]

Originally Posted by Enderenter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wow, nice research. I'm impressed.

Must not take much to impress you

[fugazi]

You don't sound like a very judgmental person at all.