Women of Norrath, what's your experience?

[Spitty]

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think I'm going to white knight a bit actually.

Go for it!

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think some of the posts in this thread have been ridiculously sexist tbh.

I think you're totally right.

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honestly when I was younger and to a degree now I wouldn't really trust a female to be good at the game. On average I think male gamers tend to be more hardcore for whatever reason. So I suppose a female has to "prove herself" to me so to speak.

Wait, what was that about white-knighting and not being sexist? Cause this is pretty fucking sexist.

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I believe in this thread there were actually some great posts by females that made me respect them quite a bit with how they presented their viewpoints.

So you're a chauvinist, too?

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there is some sexism, some deserved, some undeserved.

What, exactly, the fuck is "deserved sexism"?

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If this was reversed for whatever reason and a female said in a one line post "all men are sex hungry pigs" it would be pretty offensive.

Is that deserved sexism? Or are you just achieving perfect empathy with all the ladies you slighted by stating that women have to "prove themselves" to be decent at a game?

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Some of the things people have said in this thread have been way over the top and someone should call them out

I thought so, too - thus my post.

[Roth]

Originally Posted by Spitty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Go for it!



I think you're totally right.



Wait, what was that about white-knighting and not being sexist? Cause this is pretty fucking sexist.



So you're a chauvinist, too?



What, exactly, the fuck is "deserved sexism"?



Is that deserved sexism? Or are you just achieving perfect empathy with all the ladies you slighted by stating that women have to "prove themselves" to be decent at a game?



I thought so, too - thus my post.

I'm being honest on my opinions and my thoughts... sorry if they aren't sugar coated to be nice sounding. I mostly meant the worst posts should have been called out. Maybe my opinion is too neutral. To clarify I meant that any broad blatantly offensive statements are over the top without any proper reasoning to back them. If someone is reasonable with their post and explain themselves it is fine, imo. Apparently what I typed wasn't what you wanted to hear.

I also was mostly directing this at people just blatantly women hating to the extreme you can sometimes see on message boards and in comments on youtube.

[Spitty]

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Apparently what I typed wasn't what you wanted to hear.

I also was mostly directing this at people just blatantly women hating to the extreme you can sometimes see on message boards and in comments on youtube.

There wasn't really anything I "wanted to hear". I read most of this thread with my usual simmering loathing of the piles of excrement that can somehow operate a typing device and an internet machine.

What I was doing, and what you totally missed, was pointing out that your post was pretty sexist and mildly chauvinistic in and of itself.

I know, and associate with, women who can fucking straight-up regulate in games like CoD and EQ and have become pretty adept at using any given male's attitude and behavior towards them as a barometer of their true personality.

There's a lot of 'em out there, which might come as a shock to someone whose stock reaction is "prove it" when a female states they possess some sort of magical game-playing ability that's apparently inherent to men everywhere.

[Quineloe]

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm being honest on my opinions and my thoughts... sorry if they aren't sugar coated to be nice sounding. I mostly meant the worst posts should have been called out. Maybe my opinion is too neutral. To clarify I meant that any broad blatantly offensive statements are over the top without any proper reasoning to back them. If someone is reasonable with their post and explain themselves it is fine, imo. Apparently what I typed wasn't what you wanted to hear.

I also was mostly directing this at people just blatantly women hating to the extreme you can sometimes see on message boards and in comments on youtube.

Oh to be sure, you did sugar coat your blatant sexism and chauvinism. It's just that it's pretty hard to sugar coat it to the point people don't notice it anymore, because basically it still comes down to the only reason behind your statement being the fact that they're "women"

[Spitty]

Are you, or are you not the person who was just explaining your position by describing your target pool as "people just blatantly women hating to the extreme you can sometimes see on message boards and in comments on youtube"?

Do you really have a difficult time understanding why I have a somewhat poor view of internet dwellers? Do I need to find examples in this thread of people that are clearly right at home when it comes to trolling and personal attacks?

I don't get you. At all.

[Roth]

Originally Posted by Spitty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you, or are you not the person who was just explaining your position by describing your target pool as "people just blatantly women hating to the extreme you can sometimes see on message boards and in comments on youtube"?

Do you really have a difficult time understanding why I have a somewhat poor view of internet dwellers? Do I need to find examples in this thread of people that are clearly right at home when it comes to trolling and personal attacks?

I don't get you. At all.

I'll break down my original points

1) Having an opinion on a situation, person, or other form of thought is not bad in itself. Everyone has an opinion on something whether they would like to have one or not. Unless you are of the school of thought that gender is only a construct and there is absolutely no difference between women and men outside the physical differences, you will likely think there are minor differences between women and men. Telling this person they are an asshole or wrong isn't going to change their beliefs on the core level unless you can really convince them. It's possible to silence them, but it's hard to change their core thoughts.

2) I mostly expressed my opinion that in GENERAL, as in most of the time, not all the time, many female gamers I've met are slightly less hardcore than men. It's just a fact of reality that most pro gamers, as in people paid to play, are men. You can debate the reasoning behind that, it doesn't actually matter why it is or isn't. It's just a fact of reality.

3) I have gained some stereotypes of female gamers through experience which is what I stated in the above post. Being more casual is not a bad thing in itself. I never said females are worse at games than men. But generally I am more likely on a subconscious level to be more cautious I suppose of a female gamer, I need to first see how they play. If they are a great player I have no issues considering them as such. I have met many good female gamers.

4) I mentioned the above because originally, I wanted to show that I do not view the situation as black or white. I wanted to show that I do think that there is a grey area... it is alright to openly express your opinions if the situation is appropriate, it is not okay to be openly hateful towards other people.

5) Blatantly discrediting female gamers who have shown their skill is disrespectful to them. Also, being hateful towards females is also something I'm not a fan of. I used the word sexist but I suppose really what I should have said Is I dislike when people openly hate females and no one does anything about it. I think that kind of behavior should be called out.

6) If someone is rational and freely expressing their thoughts I do not think that in and itself is bad if they are not intentionally being hurtful or trying to degrade someone. I think it becomes an issue when you have people saying things like "fuck all these whores"

[Spitty]

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll break down my original points

Well, allow me to retort. Thanks for the veiled slight regarding my intelligence, by the way - I really needed you to break this down for me to understand it.

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Telling this person they are an asshole or wrong isn't going to change their beliefs on the core level unless you can really convince them.

I save my convincing abilities for other arenas. If I'm calling someone an asshole, it's not because I'm looking to convert them to Spittyism. All I'm doing is figuratively raising my hand, extending my finger and going "look, over there...that's an asshole." That's all it is. Whether or not you feel like I called you an asshole is moot, if what we're really discussing is this inherent sexism.

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mostly expressed my opinion that in GENERAL, as in most of the time, not all the time, many female gamers I've met are slightly less hardcore than men. It's just a fact of reality that most pro gamers, as in people paid to play, are men. You can debate the reasoning behind that, it doesn't actually matter why it is or isn't. It's just a fact of reality.

You feel the need to quantify your own statement fivefold before you agree with it. Does that strike you as odd?

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Being more casual is not a bad thing in itself. I never said females are worse at games than men. But generally I am more likely on a subconscious level to be more cautious I suppose of a female gamer, I need to first see how they play.

No, you are doing this on a conscious level. You are so fully aware of your need to qualify a female gamer that you're telling a random person about it, in detail, on a message board.

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I wanted to show that I do think that there is a grey area... it is alright to openly express your opinions if the situation is appropriate, it is not okay to be openly hateful towards other people.

This isn't about hate - there's clearly enough of that around. This is about you claiming to be a white-knight in the daunting face of sexism despite the fact that you're guarding the door to the boy's club when it comes to gaming.

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dislike when people openly hate females and no one does anything about it. I think that kind of behavior should be called out.

You and I are very much on the same page with this statement. I feel I personify it a little better than you do, though.

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think it becomes an issue when you have people saying things like "fuck all these whores"

I think that when the time comes when you can make your point without resorting to using this phrase in any capacity, then you will have made progress.

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by Roth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'll break down my original points

1) Having an opinion on a situation, person, or other form of thought is not bad in itself. Everyone has an opinion on something whether they would like to have one or not. Unless you are of the school of thought that gender is only a construct and there is absolutely no difference between women and men outside the physical differences, you will likely think there are minor differences between women and men. Telling this person they are an asshole or wrong isn't going to change their beliefs on the core level unless you can really convince them. It's possible to silence them, but it's hard to change their core thoughts.

2) I mostly expressed my opinion that in GENERAL, as in most of the time, not all the time, many female gamers I've met are slightly less hardcore than men. It's just a fact of reality that most pro gamers, as in people paid to play, are men. You can debate the reasoning behind that, it doesn't actually matter why it is or isn't. It's just a fact of reality.

3) I have gained some stereotypes of female gamers through experience which is what I stated in the above post. Being more casual is not a bad thing in itself. I never said females are worse at games than men. But generally I am more likely on a subconscious level to be more cautious I suppose of a female gamer, I need to first see how they play. If they are a great player I have no issues considering them as such. I have met many good female gamers.

4) I mentioned the above because originally, I wanted to show that I do not view the situation as black or white. I wanted to show that I do think that there is a grey area... it is alright to openly express your opinions if the situation is appropriate, it is not okay to be openly hateful towards other people.

5) Blatantly discrediting female gamers who have shown their skill is disrespectful to them. Also, being hateful towards females is also something I'm not a fan of. I used the word sexist but I suppose really what I should have said Is I dislike when people openly hate females and no one does anything about it. I think that kind of behavior should be called out.

6) If someone is rational and freely expressing their thoughts I do not think that in and itself is bad if they are not intentionally being hurtful or trying to degrade someone. I think it becomes an issue when you have people saying things like "fuck all these whores"

I think this was well said.

[Raavak]

Any women of Norrath need a port? I know a nice romantic spot... And yes my wand is magical, and epic ;-)

And no I'm not being sexist :P

[Sidelle]

Originally Posted by Raavak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Any women of Norrath need a port? I know a nice romantic spot... And yes my wand is magical, and epic ;-)

And no I'm not being sexist :P

Please port me to Toxx so I can have a nice romantic evening by the pool in Paineel....























You can leave the Epic Wand with me at that point. Byeeee! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hahaa