Sit aggro

[Danth]

Serious gamers had broadband in 1999. Game lagged sometimes anyway because the host servers used ancient technology compared to modern hardware.

The main side effect of this patch is that it renders Warriors even more helpless in experience groups than they were before. It gives groups a good reason to invite those Paladins and Shadow Knights!

Danth

[Yumyums Inmahtumtums]

This is unfortunate to hear. Haven't logged on to see the changes but it's pretty game breaking.

[Yoite]

ok everyone remember Fanzy the bard right? trained sand giants on everyone and was a funny guy. His trains would work, work in that they would attack others, because all he would do is run past them, not doing any dmg.

In that case and pretty much only in that case, proximity agro pull, should sitters get agro.

Were you ever agroed by the mob a druid or necro was kitting? No. But currently you can dmg a mob to even 50% alone then bring it into camp and bam he attacks sitters. This is just way too high. You should only have to do a single attack basically, not even 2% or even 1% of its hp in dmg, just attack it with a hit or spell, and its after you now and your agro will overcome anyone's sitting agro.

[Fysts]

Sitting increased your agro range and was like a taunt. However sitting did not automatically add you to a mobs hate list. When you proximity aggro a mob you are added to the hate list, but you do not generate hate. If a mob does not aggro you from say range 50 and you sit, the mob might then aggro you because you have become an easier target. Anyone who played classic can tell you a green mob might not aggro you, but if you sat down, he would walk up and hit you. Sitting however DID NOT, overwrite a person who had generated hate with damage or a spell. Playing a SK on live, I COULD pull all day long with a debuff and the people sitting in my group would NEVER get aggrod on my pull. Now if i proximity aggrod a mob, or picked up a 2nd mob, then the sitter might draw aggro on the 2nd mob. Sits biggest aggro effect was after casting a spell, but it seemed p99 was already pretty in tune with that and it worked extremely fine, the only thing p99 failed was sitting aggroing mobs that were simply pulled by proximity aggro. Reason being is you can open an encounter log but never generate hate with proximity aggro, but as soon as you start beating on a mob and generating hate, simply sitting or running into someone sitting should never cause the mob to disengage off you. The sitting aggro mechanic is WRONG on p99 currently. BTW sitting mechanic has never changed on live, simply log on and try it, it still works as it did in classic.

[Penish]

I, for one... Love this change (Its definitely classic) And is really going to help rid this server of its mouth breather's and generally useless rejects.

This is a GOOD change, and it definatly feels more classic. Time too buck up .

[Fysts]

4. If you sit down WHILE you are on a mob hate list, you will infuriate the mob.\

Aggro can be broken down into Hate + bonus

The hate portion is what you would commonly call aggro by itself, this is
the actual value of hate you have.
The bonus part, varies with a few things, like distance to mob, if you are
sitting or not etc. The closest person to the mob gets a bonus for proximity
more than others. (Low hp aggro is also a result from a huge (would say
almost infinite) bonus)

What this basically means is, you can have less hate than a caster who is
sitting far away, and more aggro - but - when they sit for example, their
bonus takes them over you're total aggro, and the mob makes a beeline for
them.

Taunt as a skill, puts you to the top of the hate list. Chaining taunt when
you have aggro already is pretty much futile, it does nothing if you are the
one at the top. However, periodically taunting can be a good thing, as this
makes sure that its not just bonus thats keeping the mob fixed on you.

This is from old school everquest live, it specifically states sitting just modifies the hate you currently have generated on the mob.

Therefore, on a pull only proximity aggro mob would go after a person sitting, as both people would have generated 0 hate, but the sitting person bonus hate would make them the target. If warrior has 200 hate generated and healer generates say 170 hate then sits he draws aggro due to the sitting bonus, but HE HAS TO BE ON HATE LIST!

[Fysts]

Originally Posted by Fysts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

4. If you sit down WHILE you are on a mob hate list, you will infuriate the mob.\

Aggro can be broken down into Hate + bonus

The hate portion is what you would commonly call aggro by itself, this is
the actual value of hate you have.
The bonus part, varies with a few things, like distance to mob, if you are
sitting or not etc. The closest person to the mob gets a bonus for proximity
more than others. (Low hp aggro is also a result from a huge (would say
almost infinite) bonus)

What this basically means is, you can have less hate than a caster who is
sitting far away, and more aggro - but - when they sit for example, their
bonus takes them over you're total aggro, and the mob makes a beeline for
them.

Taunt as a skill, puts you to the top of the hate list. Chaining taunt when
you have aggro already is pretty much futile, it does nothing if you are the
one at the top. However, periodically taunting can be a good thing, as this
makes sure that its not just bonus thats keeping the mob fixed on you.

This is from old school everquest live, it specifically states sitting just modifies the hate you currently have generated on the mob.

Therefore, on a pull only proximity aggro mob would go after a person sitting, as both people would have generated 0 hate, but the sitting person bonus hate would make them the target. If warrior has 200 hate generated and healer generates say 170 hate then sits he draws aggro due to the sitting bonus, but HE HAS TO BE ON HATE LIST!

[Fysts]

Quote:
Melee Hate: Dmg + Dmg Bonus*class modifier = hate per swing (before hate mods/buffs)
(the class modifier is different for every class, and is fairly small so not significant for the purposes of 'fuzzy math' calculations of hate per swing or hate per minute via swing.)
NOTE: tests have shown that you generate hate per swing based on the above formula - how much hate you generate is NOT changed by whether you 'hit' or 'miss', it is NOT changed by how much damage you do in the hit - ie, a low damage or high damage hit, or a crit, etc.
Quote:
How Hate and Aggro works:
All mobs have a Hate List. Think of this as a spreadsheet - the spreadsheet has the name of every person the mob AI is aware of, and a numeric value assigned to them. The person with the highest number is the person who the mob attacks.

Special notes and rules about hate and how it works:
1. The person with the highest numeric value on the hate list is who gets attacked.

2. To make a mob change who it is attacking, you need to have +3 hate more than the currently highest person on the hate list (ie, if a rogue gets aggro and has 1000 hate, you need to generate 1003 hate to make it attack you)

3. Taunt sets your hate as equal to the highest person on the list +1 - meaning that taunt, by itself, can NEVER change aggro from someone else to you.

4. Pressing taunt when you're already on aggro does nothing.

Special notes and rules on how mobs deal with hate and how their AI works:
1. The first action you performed on a mob with no hate list is hard capped - you can not generate more than 150 hate on the first action against a mob. There are 3 exceptions to this rule, and 3 exceptions only: Sk terror spells, paladin stun spells (not AAs), and paladin crush spells - these all bypass the hard cap and give you the full amount of hate listed in the spell, so these should *always* be the first thing you use against any mob.

2. Mobs have a dynamic hate modifier based on several factors and actions, and certain types of mobs have additional rules. Example: mobs assign dynamic hate values based on proximity, so moving away from a mob actually reduces your hate on it and gives bonus hate to people closer to it. Undead and animals have a double value for this proximity bonus. sitting gives you bonus hate, but only while you're sitting. certain mobs are flagged as 'smart' and assign bonus hate to heal spells and debuffs.

3. pets and hate: this is somewhere between a bug and just a quirk of how the game works.
a pet (mage pet, necro pet, bst pet, etc) can and will tank if two conditions are met: it's highest on the hate list, and no PCs are in proximity.
if a player is in proximity of an NPC, the NPC will attack the player regardless of its position on the hate list relative to the pet.
(ie, if the pet has 1500 hate and the player has 500 hate, it will still attack the player)
this can result in the following scenario:
player A and pet B are attacking mob C, with tank D standing a short distance away.
tank D uses spells/discs to generate hate on mob C, to the point where they have more hate than player A.
however, pet B is attacking and has taunt on, meaning it keeps pulling aggro, but since player A is in proximity the mob keeps attacking player A, even though tank C has more hate.
Quote:
Generating Hate: the numbers behind the sparkles.

1. DD spells give 1 point of hate per 1 point of *base* damage - ie, the number listed in the spell. Bonus damage from focus effects/mods do NOT cause additional hate. bonus damage from critical hits do NOT cause additional hate (this includes procs).

2. Heal spells give 1 point of hate per 1 point of healing done - the bigger the heal, the more hate it generates. A heal cast on someone with full HP will generate effectively 0 hate.
(Note that some mobs are coded to have a hate modifier regarding heals, but these inconsistent in the game world and not something you normally need to worry about)

3. Rune spells give 2 points of hate per 1 point of rune to every NPC that has you on its hate list - meaning that runes (and rune procs) are basically AE hate.

4. Stuns scale really weird and are very difficult to figure out how much hate they generate. Basically, stun spells generate hate based on a formula which uses the mob's max HP as a modifier, so it's functionally impossible to work out the exact hate value of a stun spell. Also there are lots of weird rules about whether the stun lands, or if the mob is immune, or level capped (exception to this being #6 below).

5. Melee gives a set amount of hate *per swing* regardless of whether you hit, miss, are dodged, parried, riposted, how much you hit for, and whether you get a critical hit (ie, how much damage you do per hit, and even if you hit at all, means nothing - it's a set amount of hate per swing).

The formula for how much hate you generate per swing is: damage + damage bonus (times hate mod, if applicable) = hate per swing.

6. The exception to ALL of these rules are what are called 'hate override' spells.
These are: SK Terror spells, pal crush and stun spells, war aggro disciplines.

*If you go to lucy.allakhazam.com, you will see these spells have a special 'hate generated' field, any spell with this field bypasses all other normal rules for hate generation and always gives the amount listed.

7. Hate mods (ie, from masks or buffs) add their listed % to *everything* that you do... spells, melee, healing, everything.

[Fysts]

Originally Posted by Fysts [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quote:
Melee Hate: Dmg + Dmg Bonus*class modifier = hate per swing (before hate mods/buffs)
(the class modifier is different for every class, and is fairly small so not significant for the purposes of 'fuzzy math' calculations of hate per swing or hate per minute via swing.)
NOTE: tests have shown that you generate hate per swing based on the above formula - how much hate you generate is NOT changed by whether you 'hit' or 'miss', it is NOT changed by how much damage you do in the hit - ie, a low damage or high damage hit, or a crit, etc.
Quote:
How Hate and Aggro works:
All mobs have a Hate List. Think of this as a spreadsheet - the spreadsheet has the name of every person the mob AI is aware of, and a numeric value assigned to them. The person with the highest number is the person who the mob attacks.

Special notes and rules about hate and how it works:
1. The person with the highest numeric value on the hate list is who gets attacked.

2. To make a mob change who it is attacking, you need to have +3 hate more than the currently highest person on the hate list (ie, if a rogue gets aggro and has 1000 hate, you need to generate 1003 hate to make it attack you)

3. Taunt sets your hate as equal to the highest person on the list +1 - meaning that taunt, by itself, can NEVER change aggro from someone else to you.

4. Pressing taunt when you're already on aggro does nothing.

Special notes and rules on how mobs deal with hate and how their AI works:
1. The first action you performed on a mob with no hate list is hard capped - you can not generate more than 150 hate on the first action against a mob. There are 3 exceptions to this rule, and 3 exceptions only: Sk terror spells, paladin stun spells (not AAs), and paladin crush spells - these all bypass the hard cap and give you the full amount of hate listed in the spell, so these should *always* be the first thing you use against any mob.

2. Mobs have a dynamic hate modifier based on several factors and actions, and certain types of mobs have additional rules. Example: mobs assign dynamic hate values based on proximity, so moving away from a mob actually reduces your hate on it and gives bonus hate to people closer to it. Undead and animals have a double value for this proximity bonus. sitting gives you bonus hate, but only while you're sitting. certain mobs are flagged as 'smart' and assign bonus hate to heal spells and debuffs.

3. pets and hate: this is somewhere between a bug and just a quirk of how the game works.
a pet (mage pet, necro pet, bst pet, etc) can and will tank if two conditions are met: it's highest on the hate list, and no PCs are in proximity.
if a player is in proximity of an NPC, the NPC will attack the player regardless of its position on the hate list relative to the pet.
(ie, if the pet has 1500 hate and the player has 500 hate, it will still attack the player)
this can result in the following scenario:
player A and pet B are attacking mob C, with tank D standing a short distance away.
tank D uses spells/discs to generate hate on mob C, to the point where they have more hate than player A.
however, pet B is attacking and has taunt on, meaning it keeps pulling aggro, but since player A is in proximity the mob keeps attacking player A, even though tank C has more hate.
Quote:
Generating Hate: the numbers behind the sparkles.

1. DD spells give 1 point of hate per 1 point of *base* damage - ie, the number listed in the spell. Bonus damage from focus effects/mods do NOT cause additional hate. bonus damage from critical hits do NOT cause additional hate (this includes procs).

2. Heal spells give 1 point of hate per 1 point of healing done - the bigger the heal, the more hate it generates. A heal cast on someone with full HP will generate effectively 0 hate.
(Note that some mobs are coded to have a hate modifier regarding heals, but these inconsistent in the game world and not something you normally need to worry about)

3. Rune spells give 2 points of hate per 1 point of rune to every NPC that has you on its hate list - meaning that runes (and rune procs) are basically AE hate.

4. Stuns scale really weird and are very difficult to figure out how much hate they generate. Basically, stun spells generate hate based on a formula which uses the mob's max HP as a modifier, so it's functionally impossible to work out the exact hate value of a stun spell. Also there are lots of weird rules about whether the stun lands, or if the mob is immune, or level capped (exception to this being #6 below).

5. Melee gives a set amount of hate *per swing* regardless of whether you hit, miss, are dodged, parried, riposted, how much you hit for, and whether you get a critical hit (ie, how much damage you do per hit, and even if you hit at all, means nothing - it's a set amount of hate per swing).

The formula for how much hate you generate per swing is: damage + damage bonus (times hate mod, if applicable) = hate per swing.

6. The exception to ALL of these rules are what are called 'hate override' spells.
These are: SK Terror spells, pal crush and stun spells, war aggro disciplines.

*If you go to lucy.allakhazam.com, you will see these spells have a special 'hate generated' field, any spell with this field bypasses all other normal rules for hate generation and always gives the amount listed.

7. Hate mods (ie, from masks or buffs) add their listed % to *everything* that you do... spells, melee, healing, everything.

[Ihova]

This needs to be fixed..........

As a warrior, pulling with a bow, im losing aggro as soon as i get mob to camp b/c casters are sittn it over rides what little aggro i get from the damn bow....

Sit Aggro (Classic or otherwise) only put you on the list if you got x distance to a mob, not over riding minor damage done or the proximity of the puller to the add.

The only other thing sit did was act as a multiplier of some type if you sat after casting spells.

Fix it please.....