Here's your chance to influence LnS

[Labanen]

Originally Posted by Bazia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Server population up quite a bit since PNP was instituted, regardless of the same 5 people making endless crying threads on the forum.

Keep that in mind,

No, pop is up since there is more than one guild for the first time since holoban and pvp happens. Or at the very least several things happened which would boost pop, cant give lns all credit, if any.

This ruleset is not much better than the original draft, however Derubael taking inputs is a big step forward. Appreciate that part alot regardless of what changes will be made to the lns.

The problem with the leaving zone = you called lns, is that if you fight mobs, someone engages you, you zone out to loose mob agro and get ready to fight back, but now you cant cause your attackers didnt get agro or left a monk fd inside so if they didnt zone after you, you re done. Cant even defend your Camp for an hour. Gongshows suggestion is the only reasonable one this far. And to make rules where derubael himself say a given situation is questionable is bad, how the hell are we going to interpret the rules if the author of them cant... Make it simpler.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by Labanen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with the leaving zone = you called lns, is that if you fight mobs, someone engages you, you zone out to loose mob agro and get ready to fight back, but now you cant cause your attackers didnt get agro or left a monk fd inside so if they didnt zone after you, you re done. Cant even defend your Camp for an hour. Gongshows suggestion is the only reasonable one this far. And to make rules where derubael himself say a given situation is questionable is bad, how the hell are we going to interpret the rules if the author of them cant... Make it simpler.

The leaving the zone thing only applies if you or a member of your group died, so you'd be free to go back and contest even if they didn't pursue you. I added a definition of engagement (someone dying to PvP) to the post a few hours ago to clear that up.

So far these rules have been able to address all possible scenario's and questions, except the one about someone joining the fight from another zone after a group had zoned out. I think it's safe to call that person part of a new group, so once he was killed he would be forced to call loot and scoot (since the killing group has more than 6 people, the large scale pvp rules would apply, and he must LnS). This is a pretty rare and specific scenario (group1 beats group2 out of the zone, does not pursue, but group1 has people running to join the fight from another zone), but is easily covered under this ruleset.

It's also a lot less complicated than you guys are making it out to be =X

die in large scale pvp, stay out of the fight and loot when LnS is called, die in small scale pvp, call LnS, or don't call LnS and forfeit ability to do so.

^ there's your one sentence definition.

[Labanen]

So if you loose one guy and zones out, can the remaining 5 for instance go back in to contest ?

[Labanen]

Also, i dont care if you need a sentence or 15 pages to describe the rules, i can read just fine. I care if the rules are simple and clear. I respectfully disagree with them being this, particularly in group and bigscale cases. Basicly only thing i agree with this far is how it has stopped one on one griefing. That is good.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by Labanen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So if you loose one guy and zones out, can the remaining 5 for instance go back in to contest ?

Yes, and the 1 guy who died would also be able to go in and contest if he wanted to forfeit loot and scoot. There is no auto-loot and scoot in small scale PvP, and loot and scoot is called on a per person basis. So if 2 people died and 3 people remained, those three could continue fighting wherever they wanted. If 1 people came back and called loot and scoot they could loot up and leave, if the 2nd person did not want to do so he could forfeit loot and scoot by not calling it, and continue contesting.

I copy/pasted the auto-LnS rule to both large and small scale PvP and applied it on accident without thinking about it, but that rule only applies to large scale PvP (since you aren't required to LnS in small scale if you don't want to). I've edited OP to reflect that.

Originally Posted by Labanen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, i dont care if you need a sentence or 15 pages to describe the rules, i can read just fine. I care if the rules are simple and clear. I respectfully disagree with them being this, particularly in group and bigscale cases. Basicly only thing i agree with this far is how it has stopped one on one griefing. That is good.

I did the one sentence thing because someone mentioned that earlier, sorry I didn't mean to make it sound like that was directed at you. What part is unclear though? Or not simple? If I can sum it up in 1 sentence it's probably simple. It looks long and confusing but it's not, thats just to make sure things are clearly defined. This would be needed in any LnS ruleset, regardless of implementation.

[iiNGloriouS]

I love how Nilly thinks this is just a witchhunt against them. This thread [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.].

Deru is obviously trying to get a more understandable ruleset established so shit like these bans don't happen. Stop crying wolf jesus christ.

[k9quaint]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The leaving the zone thing only applies if you or a member of your group died, so you'd be free to go back and contest even if they didn't pursue you. I added a definition of engagement (someone dying to PvP) to the post a few hours ago to clear that up.

So far these rules have been able to address all possible scenario's and questions, except the one about someone joining the fight from another zone after a group had zoned out. I think it's safe to call that person part of a new group, so once he was killed he would be forced to call loot and scoot (since the killing group has more than 6 people, the large scale pvp rules would apply, and he must LnS). This is a pretty rare and specific scenario (group1 beats group2 out of the zone, does not pursue, but group1 has people running to join the fight from another zone), but is easily covered under this ruleset.

It's also a lot less complicated than you guys are making it out to be =X

die in large scale pvp, stay out of the fight and loot when LnS is called, die in small scale pvp, call LnS, or don't call LnS and forfeit ability to do so.

^ there's your one sentence definition.

Indeed, the essence of the rules can be boiled down to that. However, the more discussion about it (both abstract and concrete) the better. Perhaps in a heavily moderated thread to weed out spam, gifs, and personal attacks.

[HippoNipple]

I think these rule revamps are great. They please players from small guilds like FoH that allow people to keep pvping if they want. It just gives people an option to surrender and leave if they want.

For large scale I also 100% agree. The point of the large scale PvP is so one side can declare victory and get rid of the zerg mentality. Once you die you are out, don't go back to the zone until the fight is over. Perfect. It gets rid of the LnS problems during fights, stops zerging and promotes teamwork.

Hopefully everyone can stop with the campaigning against the rules and get with the spirit of the rules. It is about having fun on the box and promoting fun PvP while only getting rid of large scale zergs for hours and griefing solo players. Hopefully these changes will help with the troll petitions, bait bans, etc.

As for Derubael, I'm starting to see why GMs don't respond much on these threads. He is having to defend himself, past GM decisions and these new rules way more than he should have to.

[Supreme]

The real problem is when new players start here and they do not know about these rules.

You will see alot of new players being banned because they did not receive the Purple99 Handbook for PNP.

[AmukTZ]

Just to clarify between large scale and small scale pvp..only one side has to consist of 7 or more correct?

i.e. 2 groups are doing fear and 1 group comes in to pvp. This falls into large scale rules where lns is always applied?

Overall I think this is laid out clearly and not too many gray areas exist. When does this go into action?