Re: Raid Situation

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Quite a bit of Kunark is new to many of the players on this server, though they don't even get the chance to get bored of it because of all the players that say it's stagnant and old, yet still play it all the damn time anyway.

If this content is so stale that the only way you can enjoy it is by making a competition out of it, why not play red and let other people enjoy what you're not having fun with?

Actualy ravager u have a great point in that sense is a good idea , but there is alot of people who dont like pvp.

i mean i love everquest i love to raid but i love to group aswell and i love the sociala spects of the game.

if back in 2010 when i begin to test server there was a red server i would have probably attempt it (was guilded with alof of sullon zek ex pvpers). since there wasnt one i did attemp the only class i never played in live a necromancer.

[Babayaaga]

Originally Posted by Arteker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

when there is no competition joroz , im the first to admit the hugue delay in velious have a impact in how the server developed.

i mean is very easy to blame , ib, tmo fe and bda in the end the truth this clusterfuck is due to lack of new things to people.


A prime example of this is my own guild tmo, at some point we lacked competition (wich started when tmo was FE and tmo was ib)and we turned into farm mode , people got bored and they levelñed alts, those alts of course are even more fun if they twink, so loot went to alts.
slowly guild decays but since remains realy uncontested guild get bloated(tmo never stoped to recruit, something hurted back in the IB).

Time pass and my guild only joy is competition if u look at the uncontested period pre FE tmo didint even half the strengh it had prior the froovy dupe and the following suspension.

suddenly FE rises and TMO is again in full road , good or bad the truth that kind of things keep the guild in motion.


whats the problem?FE suddenly have to deal and compete with alot of alts with good gear raid and motivated people , so its not like the TMO/IB first raid contest.


yes there is drama there is shit btw 2 guilds , im the first to admit i bashed people like tasslehoff and other FE members... list goes on.


but the thruth is suddenly we got cornered and when suspension was lifted fe ib tmo whre sittin at vp doors in a new scenario of competition, how it would have worked?.

i got no idea would have been fun to dicover once the 3 guild zoned into vp.


Now the drama is wich direction is the server rogean going to take . because there will be a fallout whatever rogean decision takes.

I think this is the first honest breakdown I've seen from a TMO member of their timeline and how they got to this point.

Any guild can be poisoned by one or two players. We are all vulnerable to this possibility. On that note it's not fair to call any guild out by the actions of a few (or many) players. Players should be dealt with on a situational basis.

I have only been on P99 for 6 months. I'm an example of a person who wants to "earn my way". I aligned myself with players who fit my personal life situation, playstyle and objectives that carried a reputation that I value - BDA.

I'm an example of "the newer player". I know of two TMO members that started within the same week that I did. I know that those two people have the same goals that I have. We levelled up together and I call them close friends (/wave Ereni and Fabben). As such I can speak on their character with utter honesty, and these two are examples of some of the most generous and loyal friends I have made in any game. They are also experienced players who are very good at whatever encounter they challenge from what I have seen. They aren't looking for handouts, they want to earn their way like I do. TMO is lucky to have them.

This is why the current ruleset as proposed by Sirken and Derubel doesn't fit. Both T1 and T2 guilds have Vintage players who experienced the timeline Arteker has described honestly and without malice. Both guilds have newer players they need to equip in preparation for Velious.

Splitting any guild between separate Tiers of content is going to cause issues within every guild because of this reason. Growth of our server's population is why we are faced with this challenge. Older (geared) players have left and many may never return. You need to refresh your forces to remain competitive. If you can't adequately gear those forces up because you are prevented access to content by server rulesets, then you create a new problem.

If we were to continue with the ruleset that Sirken/Derubel presented, the only "fix" I could see emerging would be existing guilds splitting their own guilds into "tiers" - Major and Minor. Once you have attained all Minor gear (Planar, Trak Dragon, Epic, Vox/Naggy), you would progress on to Major (VP). This dynamic would change on launch of Velious, but the structure would be similar. New players in minor guilds would be fighting alongside the Alts of players in the Major contingent (as well as their DKP).

There are several guilds that have the ability to make this split right now. If you counted the members of guildtags with players waiting to for the simulated repops, you would identify at least 6 guilds capable of doing this right now. This is why I am certain that something like this would develop eventually... out of sheer necessity.

The downside of that solution is that you don't really solve the problem that we are faced with right now. Minor guild types would inherit the same playstyles and mindsets and the problem we face today would be re-created, probably within a month's time. Tier 2 would suddenly have double the amount of guilds to contend with, including the new and emerging guilds as well as the new Minor guilds as outlined above. The same could happen in Tier 1, as Tier 2 guilds complete their requirements and move on to their major contingent in Tier 1.

Splitting content into Tiers is merely a band-aid, it isn't a fix. The players would find a solution that would allow them to compete in both arenas somehow. The true problem is that we still don't have enough content to meet demand... until Velious.

The only thing I liked about Sirken's and Derubel's solution were the rules that were outlined in regards to alt armies, poopsocking, training, etc. It is the behaviour of the few that needs to be changed. I say few, because douchebag behaviour is the exeption, not the rule. Whomever a douchebag aligns with is going to be smeared by their behaviour. Tolerance of that behaviour perhaps was another one of TMO's problems, but that's not for me to judge.

In terms of rotations, I can't really see any other way to empower everyone to have a fair shot at content until Velious comes out. It has been proven during TMO's ban that there are enough guilds that are capable of taking down this content, the only thing that prevented them perviously was disdain for the behaviour of other guilds in the competition arena. If that behaviour is adjusted, perhaps rotations aren't required, but there is a lot of anti-trust right now because of historical events.

[chickmagnet]

nah, my 86 accounts were suspended....lol

[chickmagnet]

I think Rogean as well as the other Devs encourage competition and would like to see more guilds competing, they just don't like to see the server being dominated, they hate the idea of rotation, because rotation isn't classic...every guild could log their main at a zone in while mob is in window and log on alt to play in meantime, I doubt they need to max lvl 60 out in groups...only takes 1 person to get FTE on mob, I don't care how VP decked out you are....prime example is nobles, every week, 100+ people ready to engage

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by chickmagnet [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think Rogean as well as the other Devs encourage competition and would like to see more guilds competing, they just don't like to see the server being dominated, they hate the idea of rotation, because rotation isn't classic...every guild could log their main at a zone in while mob is in window and log on alt to play in meantime, I doubt they need to max lvl 60 out in groups...only takes 1 person to get FTE on mob, I don't care how VP decked out you are....prime example is nobles, every week, 100+ people ready to engage

Rotations where classic in some servers and in some like stormhammer it was a GM enforced rotation with a Tier system.


yet that system was used and abused to cocblock guilds , in general there isnt any real solution.

Thats why in classic most GM in terms of raid would rather let the players fixt their troubles in game.

playing politics and with the media always been a risky factor , p99 isnt different .

[Unidus]

Originally Posted by Arteker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Rotations where classic in some servers and in some like stormhammer it was a GM enforced rotation with a Tier system.


yet that system was used and abused to cocblock guilds , in general there isnt any real solution.

Thats why in classic most GM in terms of raid would rather let the players fixt their troubles in game.

playing politics and with the media always been a risky factor , p99 isnt different .

Pretty much. All they need to do is add the 3-4 repops per month and any guild caught training/poopsocking/DA stalling or anything shady just ban whoever is training/Daing and disband the guild and suspend everyone from raiding for 2-4 weeks.

[Joroz]

p99 is quite a bit different, people are different when loss is real loss... here you loose an account you just make another and continue on your way, back then you loose account your out all the subscription fee's and your time building your account. This has a direct impact on how people react in the game and the risks they take on breaking rules.

If they banned people and every account that has played on the IP people would think differently here too... collateral damage adds back that risk that all your accounts and any friends accounts you played are gone forever if you take risks that could loose your account. You would be the biggest asshole for getting your friends account's banned. And that is what this server really needs to start cleaning it up... Real Losses!

[Joroz]

so many people have a view on classic and almost all of them are different... p99 will always have some non classic rules to help all these different views feel classic.

[Arteker]

Originally Posted by Joroz [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

so many people have a view on classic and almost all of them are different... p99 will always have some non classic rules to help all these different views feel classic.

urself nailed it , there is alot of people from different servers and types of guild , there is people here who actualy admit never made it past the 40s and never raided yet give opinions, then u have people who actualy was in real raid infigths and pure eq bitterness in the game .


I mean in my own experience i never been in a nice server where all was a fairy tale with rotation and pick up raids.
I feuded with Foh to beat to kill quarm, when i started in antonius bayle server there was 4 type A guilds for the luclin expansion, when moved to druzzil ro , my guild feuded and killed the local usa based guild Hoss.



im sure there is alot of people with his own experiences im just saying i was a active raider in live , i was here when tmo started to compete and i guess if some new game appeal to me i will be aswell.


what i see here is like 2 points of view about a style of gaming in everquest.


its like have a debate btw a real time strategy videogames fan and a turn based fan.

[chickmagnet]

would u poopsock if u weren't paid for it?