Hard Coded Vs Soft Coded Teams Discussion

[Lowlife]

Originally Posted by Retti_ [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lol @ people asking for no pvp lvl range and training

Exactly, and somehow that will translate into 300 people in Nek and in Crushbone like on live.

delusional.

[Kergan]

As has been stated by the majority of people, hard coding accomplishes two major things:

1. Eliminates several griefing opportunities.
2. Helps truly divide the teams.

I just see a soft coded solution as getting messy. In what other competition can someone on another team intentionally help you without repercussion? What possible legitimate reason would you have to heal or buff someone on an opposing team?

[socialist]

Originally Posted by Smedy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hope to black and never go back, If i roll erudite yall better watch the fuck out, i always play the type of character i'm associated with, gnomes are trustworthy, so are ogres, they ain't evil, just missunderstood, erudite however, i'll grief your children and rape your mother

Gotta keep it real son

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[Kergan]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because the SZ ruleset doesn't promote pvp, it promotes grief. Because the SZ server had the smallest population of any of the EQ servers. because most of the people that switched from red to blue did so because of the community on red.

i agree with you that 3 hard coded teams is the best. i just don't agree with the training, or the complete lack of PNP, or the no lvl limit PvP. none of those things promote a healthy community/population.

the ruleset will be decided by the staff. And just as we always do, we will consider player suggestions/feedback.

as far as how much weight "my word" has, who knows. i'm simply disagreeing with you on this subject, albeit very, very adamantly, because i wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment.

but since you are being serious, i apologize for my previous trollish replies to your Pro-SZ rhetoric. if you make good arguments, the sky is the limit

<3

I think in retrospect, a lot of the "no play nice" stuff was laziness by the live team staff. Clearly we have a chance to do better by not being restricted to mirroring a classic ruleset.

I'm as big a supporter of SZ as you'll find, having played there for the majority of my EQ Live career (and RZ before that). But the ability to train anyone, anywhere is how raid level zone control was established. That's garbage. Obviously training isn't a good option in a zone with a bunch of level 30-40 mobs, but in raid zones where mobs hurt it's how it was done. Speedd single-handedly kept the rest of the server out of zones for months.

Another lapse in judgement that I feel was due to laziness by the live dev team was no PVP level range. It's just easier to say anyone can kill anyone, any time then dealing with things like out of range healers in an elegant way. It doesn't have to be complicated, maybe there is an engagement timer when you cast a spell/melee on someone or are hit by a spell/melee from someone and if anyone casts a beneficial spell on a player actively engaged they are flagged for combat from any level range. Almost how UO did the red/blue flags.

I think we need to be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater here, there are certainly some changes to the SZ ruleset that need to be made but there is a lot to like as well.

I think this poll question is a step in the right direction of asking the right questions. Maybe next we should determine exactly how many teams people want? Are 2 teams the right amount with this server population? 3? 4? Getting into details of class/race/deity restrictions is probably a step beyond where we should be right now. Let's start at the base and work our way up.

[RoguePhantom]

Hardcoded teams is the only way to go. It prevents the ease of 'cross teaming' which was rampant on every server. Hard coded teams also means I can use my bard AE Mana Drains or casting Rain spells on our own team at the zonin without killing them while waiting for the inevitable zerg.

SZ will always hold a fond place in my heart. The lack of PNP and enabling of training led to the server with the most... events. You never had one guild that could strangle hold a server. Sure Evil had a distinct advantage, but at the end, it was about knowing your class, knowing the opposition and mainly... having enough targets around that one guild CANT be everywhere.

[Kergan]

Originally Posted by RoguePhantom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You never had one guild that could strangle hold a server. Sure Evil had a distinct advantage, but at the end, it was about knowing your class, knowing the opposition and mainly... having enough targets around that one guild CANT be everywhere.

You're kidding right? Hate (and Ruin before them) had a bigger stranglehold on that server than TMO or Nihilum have here, and with dozens more raid targets. Through PoP neutral never made it to the elemental planes and barely touched VT. Goods had it even worse...ask Nizzar. Did the good team ever kill any raid target in the current tier in the first 2 years of that server?

Neutral was pretty much held to raiding current content several tiers behind, Velious targets, etc. Luclin and PoP were pretty much the easiest expansions ever to control as everything had huge timesink key entry (VT) or "achievement" based progression (PoP). You could choke off entire tiers of content or entire raid zones by cockblocking a single mob like Emperor Ssra.

In every sense we do NOT want T99 to turn out anything like SZ did from a competitive standpoint. As Hate held exclusive access to more and more content as expansions were released their gear advantage grew. This led to good/neutral people quitting or rerolling evil perpetuating the advantage.

The only way other teams were able to compete was to pay the $40 transfer fee to go to Legends, get geared there off instanced content and then transfer back. That of course is not an option here.

[Nytch]

Originally Posted by Kergan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're kidding right? Hate (and Ruin before them) had a bigger stranglehold on that server than TMO or Nihilum have here, and with dozens more raid targets. Through PoP neutral never made it to the elemental planes and barely touched VT. Goods had it even worse...ask Nizzar. Did the good team ever kill any raid target in the current tier in the first 2 years of that server?

Neutral was pretty much held to raiding current content several tiers behind, Velious targets, etc. Luclin and PoP were pretty much the easiest expansions ever to control as everything had huge timesink key entry (VT) or "achievement" based progression (PoP). You could choke off entire tiers of content or entire raid zones by cockblocking a single mob like Emperor Ssra.

In every sense we do NOT want T99 to turn out anything like SZ did from a competitive standpoint. As Hate held exclusive access to more and more content as expansions were released their gear advantage grew. This led to good/neutral people quitting or rerolling evil perpetuating the advantage.

The only way other teams were able to compete was to pay the $40 transfer fee to go to Legends, get geared there off instanced content and then transfer back. That of course is not an option here.

Newt's constantly raided VT. Other than that your post is 100% accurate. Especially when they started giving Speedd DKP for training our raids. I do also remember downing Rallos Zek to gain access into the elemental planes (only happened once that I can remember so we couldn't do anything in the elemental plains)

[Chronoburn]

Originally Posted by Kergan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're kidding right? Hate (and Ruin before them) had a bigger stranglehold on that server than TMO or Nihilum have here, and with dozens more raid targets. Through PoP neutral never made it to the elemental planes and barely touched VT. Goods had it even worse...ask Nizzar. Did the good team ever kill any raid target in the current tier in the first 2 years of that server?

Neutral was pretty much held to raiding current content several tiers behind, Velious targets, etc. Luclin and PoP were pretty much the easiest expansions ever to control as everything had huge timesink key entry (VT) or "achievement" based progression (PoP). You could choke off entire tiers of content or entire raid zones by cockblocking a single mob like Emperor Ssra.

In every sense we do NOT want T99 to turn out anything like SZ did from a competitive standpoint. As Hate held exclusive access to more and more content as expansions were released their gear advantage grew. This led to good/neutral people quitting or rerolling evil perpetuating the advantage.

The only way other teams were able to compete was to pay the $40 transfer fee to go to Legends, get geared there off instanced content and then transfer back. That of course is not an option here.

Post is pretty accurate but some things need to be considered. Velious was already out when SZ launched. <Ruin> poopsocked straight for epics/ToV and never looked back (They never pvp'd until they were rocking NTov gear). This was historical poopsocking. I know some of there members were replacing banded with HoT gear.

A progression based team server having such a small community would hopefully never allow this.

[Kergan]

Neutral didn't do anything in VP during Luclin though, only after Hate had essentially moved on to the upper PoP tiers and left Speedd to defend the place solo. VT was such a mistake of a zone, you pretty much had to hit the elemental planes before the loot was better. So easy to train too.

[Lartanin63]

Trolls dont hold hand with elves. They eat em. It is the way if is meant to be.