Bard swarm kiting that kills other players

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by indiscriminate_hater [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i'm all about serving justice to irresponsible AOE kiters, and I'm not trying to undermine your authority, but wouldn't summoning the kiter into their own train (1) result in their death and, more importantly, (2) unleash the train onto the zone, potentially killing the people you are trying to protect?

You are absolutely correct, which is why before doing something like this I will announce to the zone that a swarm is about to break and run all over the place.

Originally Posted by indiscriminate_hater

and also, is action taken when the train "runs over" a player and doesn't aggro them? for example, if a kiter's train happens to path over somebody running in the middle of the zone, but the kiter does not die and no mobs ever aggro the person who came into aggro range of the train, does disciplinary action still take place? the way you describe it, you will be punishing people for random happenings in addition to the irresponsible running of trains over players camped at the zone edges. in either case, i don't see how running a train by anyone who doesn't catch any aggro is breaking any rules.

again, i'm not trying to undermine any authority. i think the discipline will do great things, but i think it's best to be as clear as possible about this.

Yes, I am saying that even if you do not get attacked right away, I will still be taking action. Those mobs will be adding the player that was passed by to their hate list, even if it's at the bottom.

From the server rules thread:

Originally Posted by Rogean

Training
Training can be defined as the intentional manipulation of NPC Placement and Aggro in such a way that causes it to attack another player that it wouldn't have otherwise if at it's normal spawn location. The most basic form of this is "dumping" mobs near another player or party and escaping via a form of teleportation or death. Intentional or not, this is against the rules. This rule is not limited to the basic example given, as there are many different forms of training players will use. You take all responsibility for mobs that you aggro. If you are trying to escape from a pack of NPC's but there is another group in your way, do not run through them. Even if your intention is not to train them, it would inevitable cause this and you may be subject to disciplinary. It is recommended that you take the death (Your responsibility for aggroing the mobs) and request a resurrection from nearby players.

I want people to keep their swarms away from other players. It causes too many problems, deaths, and petitions, and honestly it's not that difficult. Just show a little discretion when grabbing your swarms and you'll be fine.

My sincere hope is that everyone plays nice and I can leave everyone alone.


**edit** looks like you beat me to it

however, this is still a bit ambiguous when it comes to defining a "group in your way." if you actively keep your train away from all known camps in the zone, and still manage to run it over a person running through the middle of the zone without any aggro transferring, is this punishable?

Do your best to avoid people running through the zone. Again, this shouldn't be that difficult. Keep in mind that each situation will be evaluated as it comes, but use this as a baseline. For example, if there's some bard hater intentionally trying to get trained by running around your swarm/getting in your way, I'm not going to punish you. But if someone is just trying to cross the zone to get to the OT outpost from WW, you need to make sure your swarm doesn't go near them.

[Mandalore93]

P99 nanny state. Now its completely understandable for the bard to be aware of common camps in a zone, but to be responsible for literally every player in the zone? This seems to be the vocal minority making a much bigger issue out of this than it needs to be. There are, what, like three zones that are heavily used by bards?

Apparently Bard kiting is important enough to warrant specific GM action but VP is a free for all? There are many zones and often much better zones than the three main bard haunts for leveling but only one VP

[Doktoor]

As someone who's done some AE kiting, its not that difficult to avoid people in these zones - you know where they're gonna be.

The problem comes from a bard using too much area while pulling - getting too far from your pull while pulling more.

Selos allows you to get all over the zone and let your pack continue to accrue while you're way off getting more.

If you just stay close to your pack as you pull more and look out for people, then it's not that hard to keep them from getting anyone else on the hate list.

I only did it for a few levels in the 30s. It's boring and hard on the wrists.

[wrxBRAH]

Originally Posted by Mandalore93 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 nanny state. Now its completely understandable for the bard to be aware of common camps in a zone, but to be responsible for literally every player in the zone? This seems to be the vocal minority making a much bigger issue out of this than it needs to be. There are, what, like three zones that are heavily used by bards?

Apparently Bard kiting is important enough to warrant specific GM action but VP is a free for all? There are many zones and often much better zones than the three main bard haunts for leveling but only one VP

No one is saying Bards can't swarm kite. But if you continue to run your swarms by others camps getting them killed, you will be held responsible. Seems pretty fair to me. Would you rather they ban swarm kiting instead of finding a middle ground?

[Tecmos Deception]

GMs enforcing the training rules as written?

That's pretty awesome [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But if someone is just trying to cross the zone to get to the OT outpost from WW, you need to make sure your swarm doesn't go near them.

But this isn't right, is it? Current aggro mechanics would not cause the bard's pull to add a random passerby to the aggro list, would they? That person would have to be engaged with a mob that mobs in the train assist, right?

[senna]

Strong agenda there Derubael, what did the evil bard do to your family?

Jk


But seriously, sad to see the crybabies getting their own rent a cop in OT.

Shits classic, deal with it.

[Conky]

Originally Posted by senna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Strong agenda there Derubael, what did the evil bard do to your family?

Jk


But seriously, sad to see the crybabies getting their own rent a cop in OT.

Shits classic, deal with it.

Getting ran over by 50 mobs and then 2min later have them all aggro you cause the bard died is not classic its being a douche. It happened to me last week I sent the bard a tell saying plz dont run your train over me cause I dont want them all when you die, he responded with only shitty bards die and Im not shitty, deal with it. Well 20 min later I run into his corpse on my way out the zone, way too many bards who just dont give a shit, my main is a bard, you dont have to be a dick to the entire zone to AoE kite.

[BillyCranston]

Originally Posted by Mandalore93 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

P99 nanny state. Now its completely understandable for the bard to be aware of common camps in a zone, but to be responsible for literally every player in the zone? This seems to be the vocal minority making a much bigger issue out of this than it needs to be. There are, what, like three zones that are heavily used by bards?

Apparently Bard kiting is important enough to warrant specific GM action but VP is a free for all? There are many zones and often much better zones than the three main bard haunts for leveling but only one VP

Do please shut up. Is this thread about raiding? Or is this thread about swarm kiting in open leveling zones? Seriously, go suck a big fat mandalorian cock please.

[Mandalore93]

Originally Posted by wrxBRAH [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No one is saying Bards can't swarm kite. But if you continue to run your swarms by others camps getting them killed, you will be held responsible. Seems pretty fair to me. Would you rather they ban swarm kiting instead of finding a middle ground?

I mentioned that Bards should be completely responsible for avoiding camps. And while yes, Bards should be aware of others when pulling that doesn't mean that they are omniscient players able to track every other player coming and going through the middle of a zone. Maybe all Bards should just have a macro that is "/ooc Look out for the huge fucking group of mobs, running through it could be detrimental." Because there will more than likely be somebody who runs through it, bard messes up, then person gets killed. While I don't have an issue with training being enforced, it seems that the whiners have gotten a GM to come down hard on one zone, on one class when I'm sure pull mishaps happen all the time throughout many zones.

To be honest I just view it as zone information. It's like going into Mistemoore and not expecting to see some trains, or going into TD and expecting not to see quad kiting. If you go to OT you should expect bard kiting. There are risks to playing in every zone.

And for this to take a higher priority than CSR in Veeshan's Peak just seems completely off kilter to me. But that's my own personal opinion.

Also, a bit off topic but could this issue also be a result of incorrect aggro mechanics? I would have to assume part of the mechanics don't work given that swarm charm kiting doesn't work here the way it should. (Last I checked)

[indiscriminate_hater]

Originally Posted by BillyCranston [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do please shut up. Is this thread about raiding? Or is this thread about swarm kiting in open leveling zones? Seriously, go suck a big fat mandalorian cock please.

the flame law of p99 forums: on a large enough time scale, all threads will converge to RnF content