Duping

[Loli Pops]

Yantis used to send weekly emails back in the day with his wares. Man I can't believe I remember that shit. Never bought a thing tho. Scrubs.

[Excidium]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Keep in mind that active policing of RMT is used by this server as a way to demonstrate non-infringing fair use. Ceasing to police RMT will create a greater chance of liability.

And to my knowledge, there is no fair use. And if there is any type of donations to this server, that is seen as revenue. Calling it a donation isn't changing the fact that somebody is getting paid.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Sarius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This. Every time you idiots buy PP and items for cash you are not only risking getting banned and being out cash, but also being out cash by the server getting shut down. If you stop buying shit from RMT sites, RMT sites will not have any reason to function for this server.

Stop fucking RMTing

Yeah, that will do it...good job [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

RMT ruins games...the nature of classic EQ encourages RMT...its a horrible cycle.

The RMT is only getting so much attention right now because folks are linking (with some speculation and some circumstantial evidence) it with the DDOS. The DDOS ruins everything instantly for the entire server. Take the DDOS out of the equation and most folks would go back to not caring significantly about the RMT.

Personally, I don't like the RMT (or the DDOS)...but I don't think there is a real solution to this problem. There wasn't on live (still isn't on live) and there won't be one here. Wiping the server doesn't fix the problem. If anything, a server wipe might create an even greater market for RMT.

Sometimes it is better to leave the genie in the bottle than it is to smash it and see what happens.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Excidium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And to my knowledge, there is no fair use. And if there is any type of donations to this server, that is seen as revenue. Calling it a donation isn't changing the fact that somebody is getting paid.

Game emulation is a legal gray area currently. It tends to be a fairly dark shade of gray, but there is not much settled law on the subject. Because the issue is fuzzy, the server protects itself by accumulating as many possible defenses as it can.

These include, but are not limited to, confidential understandings with Sony decision makers who have connections to EQ, active policing of RMT activities, no personal pecuniary gain, and agreements to not actively pursue current Sony customers by advertising on Sony's forums.

These are not perfect defenses, and they very well could be meaningless. However, they contain potential utility to safeguard the server, and the staff has chosen to pursue these protections for obvious reasons. Even if there is no legal leg to stand on, active policing of RMT activities might prove to be a mitigating factor that discourages Sony from pursuing action against the server.

[Sirken]

just a reminder

do NOT post your info on duping in this thread,

send it to Rogean in a PM, OR go to the petition forum. but this thread is not the place to report info to the staff

<3
Sirks

[Excidium]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Game emulation is a legal gray area currently. It tends to be a fairly dark shade of gray, but there is not much settled law on the subject. Because the issue is fuzzy, the server protects itself by accumulating as many possible defenses as it can.

These include, but are not limited to, confidential understandings with Sony decision makers who have connections to EQ, active policing of RMT activities, no personal pecuniary gain, and agreements to not actively pursue current Sony customers by advertising on Sony's forums.

These are not perfect defenses, and they very well could be meaningless. However, they contain potential utility to safeguard the server, and the staff has chosen to pursue these protections for obvious reasons. Even if there is no legal leg to stand on, active policing of RMT activities might prove to be a mitigating factor that discourages Sony from pursuing action against the server.

Two of your defences are common sense to not kick the hornets nest. RMT on the other hand is not something you can successfully pursue. As long as this server shares the likeness of soe's IP they have total authority over this. Emulation of a client is one thing, its what you buy when you purchase the game. What is not something you can emulate is their server client since you never purchased the ability to use that software. If anything, SOE could come after the server from all tje pirated copies people use to plau this game from.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Excidium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If anything, SOE could come after the server from all tje pirated copies people use to plau this game from.

Which is why these forums generally do not permit the open subornation of pirating the Titanium client. Yes, SoE could very likely have this server shut down if they pursued it hard enough. P99 does not survive by legal defense, it survives by escaping scrutiny.

The staff has stated in the past that the policing of RMT has been demonstrably useful in avoiding SoE's close attention. You are absolutely correct to say that such policing may ultimately prove marginal or futile at stopping the flow of RMT itself, but that is not the only consideration. Policing RMT prevents unwanted attention.

[t0lkien]

Originally Posted by Furinex [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I could find the post I would, but I read a post from someone in another thread, that the EQ code is an elegant code meant for a time period of greater mental fortitude and honor. Honor being the keyword. Being as this was an innocent time period, these things probably weren't thought of. Wish I could remember who said it so I could quote them directly, for it was a brilliant statement that holds real weight.

Here you go:

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

EQ was designed in a more innocent time [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not as clumsy or random as a modern MMO; an elegant code for a more civilized age.

By the way, the *only* way to code an item exchange is to create it in the receiver's inventory before deleting it from the giver's in order to avoid the item being lost altogether in these very instances. That is rigourous code. The problem, of course, is it creates the opportunity for duping. Individual item numbers would have fixed that, but this being the first game of its kind I guess no-one foresaw the prospect of server-wide duping. Individual item tagging is standard practice now. I'm reasonably certain item exchanges are coded in a slightly different way too (a type of database escrow).

I know the same issue could happen on death - I died on Live once and when the server came up I was at my spawn point fully clothed with a full inventory. I went back to my camp and there was a fully clothed corpse, including my epic (so I had to delete one - that was the most difficult delete I ever did). I didn't want the second version left around anywhere incase there were checks. I profited in a small way because non-lore items were lootable so I took them. I felt bad about doing even that, so whatever I couldn't use was given away or destroyed.

[Excidium]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Which is why these forums generally do not permit the open subornation of pirating the Titanium client. Yes, SoE could very likely have this server shut down if they pursued it hard enough. P99 does not survive by legal defense, it survives by escaping scrutiny.

The staff has stated in the past that the policing of RMT has been demonstrably useful in avoiding SoE's close attention. You are absolutely correct to say that such policing may ultimately prove marginal or futile at stopping the flow of RMT itself, but that is not the only consideration. Policing RMT prevents unwanted attention.

I'll give you that. But now you need to figure out how to prevent RMT other than the failed way of "Its bad, do it and go to jail". We all know that doesn't work. But as a previous post stated, this game inherently breeds RMT because items can be monopolized. Look how bad that Soulfire thread derailed because TMO got beat by a classic mechanic. How many Trak kills did they get? How many of those drops get banked?

I say this because I'm ashamed of my time in Echoes of Elysium on the progression. Damdor and his crew of neckbeard unemployed basement dwellers really hurt that server. We were still farming AOW when POP came out. Everybody and their alt had BOCs and I bet there was some RMTing involved. We had no reason to keep farming Tormax and AoW. Yeah maybe 1 piece would go to a main or alt or bot, but most went unaccounted for. In the end Damdor convinced himself that he was entitled to ever spawn in the game, and many good people stopped playing because he would poopsock every spawn and batphone at 3am. He just couldn't share, and it sounds like that here in P99. We monopolized an expansion for 2-3 months. TMO here has been doing it for how long now?

[Razdeline]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Here you go:





By the way, the *only* way to code an item exchange is to create it in the receiver's inventory before deleting it from the giver's in order to avoid the item being lost altogether in these very instances. That is rigourous code. The problem, of course, is it creates the opportunity for duping. Individual item numbers would have fixed that, but this being the first game of its kind I guess no-one foresaw the prospect of server-wide duping. Individual item tagging is standard practice now. I'm reasonably certain item exchanges are coded in a slightly different way too (a type of database escrow).

I know the same issue could happen on death - I died on Live once and when the server came up I was at my spawn point fully clothed with a full inventory. I went back to my camp and there was a fully clothed corpse, including my epic (so I had to delete one - that was the most difficult delete I ever did). I didn't want the second version left around anywhere incase there were checks. I profited in a small way because non-lore items were lootable so I took them. I felt bad about doing even that, so whatever I couldn't use was given away or destroyed.

Same thing happened to me during live, I died during extreme lag, came back and had a full corpse. I went back out to the same camp I was at and saw my corpse on the ground. I wonder if a method of this is being used to dupe. Too bad I was only in my 30's and didn't have anything of value.

Do you remember the exact scenario in which this occurred for you? Maybe if we can create the same environment we can reproduce the issue on p99.