Camping Raid Mobs... gone on long enough ?!

[Skope]

His point is that a lot (day i say almost ALL) of the gear in classic that we as raiding guilds are wearing don't last past level 55 in kunark. I can think of a few instances where this isn't the case, but his point, and a valid one for anyone that can actually remember this far back, is the rather large discrepancy between classic loot and kunark loot. The stats on loot from Kunark=>Velious was just a fraction of the drastic difference between classic => kunark.

For instance, on my shaman I can only think of 1 single piece of gear that will last me through kunark (nevermind velious). But, hypothetically, if this was kunark I can think of perhaps 7 or 8 that can last me all the way through velious.

Kunark wasn't famous for its resist gear, thus I can understand camping planar sets and the super-awesome resist shoulders. CoF // RBB are great, but Seb cloak and RBG are more than sufficient and a hell of a lot easier to get. Mana/HP gear in classic would make sense if we were still raiding with 15-20 people, but, let's be honest, numbers will only drop that low if we're AFK-sitting on something. The first time that EQ brought about tiered gear was during late-stage kunark raiding, and I don't mean trak and the other wussy dragons (maybe epic lockdowns). It then continued all the way through velious, which is where the top guilds really left everyone else behind.

[Gwence]

Its the mindset of the guild, if you're not willing to do what it takes to get raid loot now, you wont be able/willing to do it in Kunark. Because the competition will be even tougher than it is now.

Also, what draco shoulders?

[Skope]

Gwence, please don't tell me that guilds with 300 members will stay on top in kunark, because with epics and keycamping (moreso the keys, really), the big guilds are actually at a disadvantage. Sure they may start out with 60 a raid, but when 40 of those people realize that they aren't getting keyed and their fellow raiders are already doing what they have to wait months to do, it quite simply won't last.

Kunark is when you saw the tactical mindsets of guilds in their class selection. You very rarely saw more than 2 mages a raid, 2-3 shaman, couple monks and perhaps 2 warriors (often get by with just one). It wasn't because having more people wouldn't help, not at all. It was purely because they didn't want to wait for the rest and didn't really have to.

To put it simply, guilds didn't "wait" for the rest to catch up, they just dropped them off along the side of the road and kept driving. Hence you got the whole step-ladder guild movement. If the guild above you was 2 steps too high, then you were SOL and bound to stay where you are until you can make up the ground and hope they pause at some time.

[Loke]

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, the Bone-Clasped Girdle will be added to Dread, Fright and Terror's loot tables with the revamp of Fear so it's not exactly the best example.

You don't need the very best gear in the game to do all the content in the game.

I could be wrong here, but wasn't the Fear revamp a Velious thing? If so, kind of off topic for the classic v. kunark argument.

While you don't NEED the very best gear, it certainly helps. As with any competition, every little advantage helps and it's simply foolish* to say otherwise.

*Note: The use of the word foolish was not intended as a personal attack.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

His point is that a lot (day i say almost ALL) of the gear in classic that we as raiding guilds are wearing don't last past level 55 in kunark. I can think of a few instances where this isn't the case, but his point, and a valid one for anyone that can actually remember this far back, is the rather large discrepancy between classic loot and kunark loot. The stats on loot from Kunark=>Velious was just a fraction of the drastic difference between classic => kunark.

For instance, on my shaman I can only think of 1 single piece of gear that will last me through kunark (nevermind velious). But, hypothetically, if this was kunark I can think of perhaps 7 or 8 that can last me all the way through velious.

Kunark wasn't famous for its resist gear, thus I can understand camping planar sets and the super-awesome resist shoulders. CoF // RBB are great, but Seb cloak and RBG are more than sufficient and a hell of a lot easier to get. Mana/HP gear in classic would make sense if we were still raiding with 15-20 people, but, let's be honest, numbers will only drop that low if we're AFK-sitting on something. The first time that EQ brought about tiered gear was during late-stage kunark raiding, and I don't mean trak and the other wussy dragons (maybe epic lockdowns). It then continued all the way through velious, which is where the top guilds really left everyone else behind.

So now the argument is not about getting the best, it's about what's "more than sufficient" and "a hell of a lot easier to get"?

Straw man much?

Why do you even post?

[Skope]

It's not about straw manning, it's about knowing when to put in the effort, for what, and at the appropriate time. Alawenn, I've seen your old guild members drop like flies because of the recent state of raidcamping, and apparently you're not in favor of it either, so why all the hate?

I think we actually see eye to eye on some things, but perhaps we don't on the amount of effort (or lack of it, really) that's going on as of late. I'm not going to miss work to kill naggy, it's not worth it. I'm not going to deprive myself of sleep, it's not worth it. And I'm well aware of that. But the fact is, a lot of these people who are doing it now will realize much the same thing, it's just unfortunate that they'll be driven to quit long before then.

If they can, well that's great for them! But at its current state it's happening by bending and molding the rules (and the guild itself) in order to accomplish things that can be made far easier for everybody (and ESPECIALLY for those who would put in extra effort and time) without having to burn so many damn people out.


EDIT: the issue of kunark and velious and the problems that will unfold are secondary to what the OP and the majority of the past 14 pages have been about, and that's the incessant camping that's going on. I think we're all diverting off-topic.

[rioisk]

Just remember guys. When people from IB flex their e-peen and talk about being the best it actually translates to "we play 24 hours a day and are on raid-alert 24 hours day". You could be the worst player and still have the best gear/see the most content simply from dedication. This means you are giving up doing other more productive/fun things with your life.

[Skope]

To phrase it in words that a select few of us will understand:

If you keep poopsocking, you're bound to run out of socks.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by rioisk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just remember guys. When people from IB flex their e-peen and talk about being the best it actually translates to "we play 24 hours a day and are on raid-alert 24 hours day". You could be the worst player and still have the best gear/see the most content simply from dedication. This means you are giving up doing other more productive/fun things with your life.

If you tried hard, I'm sure you could come up with an even more bizarre metaphor for your straw man argument.

The point under discussion here is whether the loot that drops in classic offers an advantage to the people who receive it. Despite attempts to turn that discussion into what's almost as good in the next expansion or who doesn't have a life while they camp it, the answer to that question is yes. Top end guilds with top end loot have an advantage. That's the way this game works.

The reasons some of you think top end loot gets easily replaced in the next expansion are because you never had top end loot in EQ and you played a lot of WoW.

[apio]

i like to think of EQ as a game where skill actually has a big impact on the end result. Most raids in Kunark and Velious were not really about the gear you had but about having the right strategies to the encounters, and about the execution of those strategies.

As Planar armor / random trash drops are freely available to more than just 2 guilds, i dont believe there will be any huge advantage for any guild thats raiding at the moment. It doesnt really matter who gets the Big Four (or 7 if you count draco, maestro and phinny).

If anything, those guilds that are so huge right now (because the only way you see a boss mob is by joining exactly those guilds) will run into big problems during kunark, when theyre trying to "gear up" 50 or more people for the upcoming expansion. This will lead to the same result it did back on live, downsizing, for a variety of reasons. if thats not possible the only thing the leading guilds will be able to do to stop smaller guilds from progressing faster than they are, is to monopolize the content and "cockblock" other guilds. this is also what happened on Live, btw !

But then again, as a few people already pointed out, cockblocking and gearing up is really not the issue in the transition from Classic to Kunark.

but thats just my 2cp