Rules clarification

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by h0tr0d (shaere) [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interesting proposition. If you invoke the 15 man rule you have to use those 15 to kill it within 15 minutes, I likey!

Have discussed with Ambrotos a few weeks ago, brought it up to him again last night due to recent events.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

Problem you run into is if they camp 15 at draco, 15 at inny, 15 at , you get the point.

[Rasah]

Originally Posted by Nietche [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is exactly the point. BDA could not have claimed Trak as theirs given the letter of the law based upon their proximity to Trak spawn. Their failure should not somehow be exaggerated to include a TMO failure. It is what it is. Move on.

I think most people have moved on. More than half of this thread has been TMO talking down and gloating. We got the clarification for next time. That's good enough for me. There will be another Trak in 3 days, and another one 3 days after that. We will follow the LETTER OF THE LAW next time. I expect the same from your side.

[Lazortag]

What I've been saying in this thread keeps getting ignored so I'm going to assume that's because it was just so brilliant and profound that no one can come up with a response.

Originally Posted by Stealin

Tell me how BDA wanted TMO to react to having 40 poopsock just outside Trakanon's aggro radius?

I see.
1) use 15man rule (was used)
2) log 40 in with BDA and play an inching game
3) give BDA all rights on Trak because they are poopsocking and may lead to an FTE dispute (GM involvement)

Option 1 punishes other guilds too. How is that fair?

[Nietche]

Originally Posted by Azazel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

stop falling back on the rules and try being nicer to each other [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The play nice policy is also a rule. Should we stop falling back on that rule too?

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

But I like it still. Means the other guild gets choice of the harder targets really. And if they go for the larger, then you get the smaller, no?

[Autotune]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I've been saying in this thread keeps getting ignored so I'm going to assume that's because it was just so brilliant and profound that no one can come up with a response.



Option 1 punishes other guilds too. How is that fair?

Why does everything have to be fair? Again, tell me what you think TMO should have done.

I bet it revolves around, just give them the mob. That's what every guild other than TMO wants, free handouts.

Again, if you play a poopsock card, don't get pissed when someone plays it better than you.

Guild A uses shitty tactic that has always been called shitty.
Guild b uses rule against shitty tactic, rule has been considered shitty as well.

Guild B didn't involve GMs.

Looks like that 15man rule did it's job to me. Nothing was lawyered, shit was just straight used.

[h0tr0d (shaere)]

The play nice policy is also a rule. Should we stop falling back on that rule too?

I said that forever ago..lol.

What about you can invoke the 15 man rule 5 times a month, or only once every 3 days, or something. Set a limit to it, like you also can invoke it 10 times in a month but forego raiding the next month, or heck i dont know. Spitballing here. I always agreed if play nice is the policy, how about focusing on that. Focus on what you are trying to achieve, rather then the semantic details and legalese.

[Llabak]

Originally Posted by Nietche [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact that BDA had 40+ is a moot point because they were not on Trak's spawn point. The problem with stretching the rules to include the vicinity around Trak's spawn (such as Tola) is that this kind of precedent can lead to greater radii so that, before long, having 40+ at the zone entrance is conceivably enough to show "raid force" for a target.

Missing the point, Nietche. It's not about "rules" (to me) as it is about not being a dick. If there's another guild there hanging out waiting to engage on spawn, honestly where's the harm in saying "ok, you guys got here first, we'll go do other things"? I was under the impression that you quit BDA because you didn't like the attitude of people that had recently joined us. Do you really believe that you're doing any better with your new guild?

I gated out and went to go play an alt not long after you guys rushed the spawn point and claimed the camp. I don't see how anyone sees that as "competition" or even "fun." Shit, when everyone was sitting on the safe rock (still at a 2:1 BDA to TMO ratio, I'd estimate), I asked in guild whether or not this was the best solution we could come up with. 70 adults sitting on their asses doing nothing for hours? Really?

Maybe for some people that's fun. I pity them.

For what it's worth, I could be epic'ed by now if we hadn't had the rotation while TMO was raid suspended. The Inny that Divinity killed had both the eye on it and the encylopedia, and I was the only necro online when they took him down. I was hoping they would wipe, but they didn't and someone else got the loot. That's cool. They got to have some of the same fun I'd gotten on the last Inny kill, and fun that under the current raid situation they will probably never get again, unless TMO decides to stop farming Inny when Vellious comes out. I don't think I'm a member of the minority, either of the server population as a whole, or or BDA members specifically. What about TMO folks? Do you think that TMO should get every raid encounter they can win the race to? Even Ragefires for level 20-something alts?

Would it really hurt to set up some sort of rotation that makes everyone happy?

TMO
BDA
Open competition - race to the mob
Other server peeps
Open competition - race to the mob
Repeat.

That seems so mind bogglingly simple.

[Tiggles]

Originally Posted by Llabak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Missing the point, Nietche. It's not about "rules" (to me) as it is about not being a dick. If there's another guild there hanging out waiting to engage on spawn, honestly where's the harm in saying "ok, you guys got here first, we'll go do other things"? I was under the impression that you quit BDA because you didn't like the attitude of people that had recently joined us. Do you really believe that you're doing any better with your new guild?

I gated out and went to go play an alt not long after you guys rushed the spawn point and claimed the camp. I don't see how anyone sees that as "competition" or even "fun." Shit, when everyone was sitting on the safe rock (still at a 2:1 BDA to TMO ratio, I'd estimate), I asked in guild whether or not this was the best solution we could come up with. 70 adults sitting on their asses doing nothing for hours? Really?

Maybe for some people that's fun. I pity them.

For what it's worth, I could be epic'ed by now if we hadn't had the rotation while TMO was raid suspended. The Inny that Divinity killed had both the eye on it and the encylopedia, and I was the only necro online when they took him down. I was hoping they would wipe, but they didn't and someone else got the loot. That's cool. They got to have some of the same fun I'd gotten on the last Inny kill, and fun that under the current raid situation they will probably never get again, unless TMO decides to stop farming Inny when Vellious comes out. I don't think I'm a member of the minority, either of the server population as a whole, or or BDA members specifically. What about TMO folks? Do you think that TMO should get every raid encounter they can win the race to? Even Ragefires for level 20-something alts?

Would it really hurt to set up some sort of rotation that makes everyone happy?

TMO
BDA
Open competition - race to the mob
Other server peeps
Open competition - race to the mob
Repeat.

That seems so mind bogglingly simple.

Because VDA has not earned the right to get free mobs. Start taking mobs from tmo for a couple months and sure