Best solo melee class?

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by zelld52 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Patch notes from October 2001:

- Bards have had their 1h blunt and 1h slash skill caps increased to
250. Their piercing skill cap has been increased to 240. Their Offense
skill cap has been raised to 252. Bards are also being moved to the
same combat table with all the other melee and hybrid classes (save
monks who have separate tables after level 55). Bards Parry skill cap
has been raised to 185 as well. Finally, the Singing Shortsword can now
be equipped in the off hand and still give full song enhancing
benefits.


Prior to October 2001, bards were not on the same melee tables as other classes.

They were not originally meant to be played as melee characters, but as casters in plate.

All classes were seeing significant changes from the earliest phases onward. Here's a list of some of the post-release changes: https://web.archive.org/web/20020401...ss_enhance.htm


Balance changes to the bard were made in increments, melee skills included. One reason for these was the unavoidable issue of song aggro. Since mobs were all over them, bards needed a means to defend themselves and fight back.

https://web.archive.org/web/20001011...age000203.html

Q: A BardÂ’s Dodge caps at 120, and they get no parry or riposte. Why? (Class Balance is a fine answer, just checking)
A: Bards have much better, and much more unique, magical abilities then those of any other Hybrid class. Because of this, their melee skills are not as good as the typical Hybrid. Bards melee still better then any non-melee class - their offense, weapon skills, hit points and two-weapon fighting are superior to that of any priest or magi type.

Q: First I would like to know why you made bards hybrids. I mean I see rangers ( druid/warrior), Paladins (cleric/warrior), and ShadowKnights (necro/warrior), but a Bard is a rogue/?
A: Bards are Hybrids (by classification) because they more closely resemble the Paladin/SK/Ranger then any other group of classes.

The Arch-Mage, AKA Geoffrey Z., AKA GZ, is one of the Game Designers at Verant Interactive.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010417...ve/Oct2000.htm

Abashi
Station Member posted 10-10-2000 05:17 PM

* Dodge/Parry. Bards get skills at 53 and 58 respectively. Way too high for most players to ever see them and excessively high compared to other classes that get these skills in 20s and 30s. Both parry & riposte capped at 70. Below is summary of all melee/hybrid combat skills to put this into perspective:
[Wrinn, Gordon] – I understand the point, but the skills were not meant to be a large balance component to the class, but rather a reward for making it that high in level. Decreasing the level of acquisition or increasing the caps wouldn’t be appropriate.

Pointing out the obvious, but bards also have a line of songs that provide self-only haste songs (level 7, 45, and 58). These weren't added in willy nilly as filler, but came with a specific purpose in mind, according to the devs. A summary of their answers below reinforces the idea that melee combat was an intended feature of the class.

https://web.archive.org/web/20001205....com/index.htm

11/20 11:30am - Very interesting tidbit from Ester the Tester regarding Jonthan's Provocation. If I read this correctly Provocation will give a bard max haste with just this song:

Kenross
Station Member posted 11-20-2000 10:16 AM

This song was recently changed to be non-targetted self-buff rather than a targetted other-buff. The reason given was to increase the Bard's melee capabilities in certain circumstances, which is fine.

EsterTheTester
Station Member posted 11-20-2000 10:58 AM


Here is the official answer
Thanks for the info. Ive changed the song to singing skill. As far as reaching max cap on the haste portion of the song, when I originally changed the song I changed its haste formula so that a bard would hit max haste without an instrunment.


This is from Tolan, the person who is doing spells for Velious.

The other big change announced in Absor's post was the changes for the 2 upper level Jonthan's songs (Jonthan's Provocation and Jonthan's Inspiration). I had grave misgivings about these changes personally as I have found them useful in certain cases. But at the Las Vegas Event I was able to chat with a couple of the Live Team members about it. The changes to these songs are going to be a nice power up to the songs, the goal they told me was that they would allow a bard using them to effectively tank while doing so. It will be interesting to see how they are going to work.

[Ennewi]

The starting stats are another good indicator. Looking at the base stats of humans, three categories exceed the standard 75 before bonus points are allocated.

STR: 80 STA: 75 AGI: 75 DEX: 85 WIS: 75 INT: 75 CHA: 85 BONUS: 25

The developers provided the class with +5 to strength, +10 to dexterity, +10 to charisma, but no additional points to intelligence. Even the epic increases those same stats, neglecting intelligence yet again, with the proc further increasing strength.

STR: +15 DEX: +10 STA: +5 CHA: +20 HP: +100
SV FIRE: +10 SV DISEASE: +10 SV COLD: +10 SV MAGIC: +10 SV POISON: +10

10 : Increase Attack Speed by 55%
11 : Increase STR by 30
12 : Increase ATK by 30

So technically a melee class IMO, admittedly with lots of bells and whistles that allow it to forego physical combat altogether. But, as with shadow knights, this means fear kiting is a viable option, especially due to having comparable/superior versions of snare at no mana cost. And this option becomes available mid-20s, conveniently right around the level when mobs start to hit much harder.

[Zuranthium]

Those buffs were the result of Bards being mad in Velious that they couldn't mez/charm in most high level areas, and the devs trying to throw them a bone.

[Zuranthium]

INT/WIS are irrelevant, you don't explicitly need those stats to be a caster. DEX and CHA are the casting stats for a Bard, since they determine fizzles (missed notes) and the effectiveness of many of their spells (songs).

Maybe someday a game will give us a sex caster that needs high Agility to self-suck themselves in order for their magic to work.

[Ennewi]

The underlying min/max value of the stat(s) in question is besides the point. What's telling is where the developers chose to allocate their own points for each class. All purecasters received extra INT, all priests extra WIS, and so on. These bolstered stats are even highlighted, bright green, during character creation.

[Goregasmic]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The underlying min/max value of the stat(s) in question is besides the point. What's telling is where the developers chose to allocate their own points for each class. All purecasters received extra INT, all priests extra WIS, and so on. These bolstered stats are even highlighted, bright green, during character creation.

The devs also put a ton of dex and agi on caster gear though, even into velious. Sometimes I'm not sure even the OG devs knew wtf they were aiming for.

[Ennewi]

Originally Posted by Goregasmic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The devs also put a ton of dex and agi on caster gear though, even into velious. Sometimes I'm not sure even the OG devs knew wtf they were aiming for.

For sure, but then there's also just a ton of gear in classic. The itemization is along the same lines as Diablo 2. You'll get something that looks like a five year old came up with it and then the total opposite, where the item not only fits the theme but also has more uses than originally thought.

That said, it didn't help that various devs were working separately on x, y, z. Or that, when they did communicate ideas, heated debates would turn physical.

[Snaggles]

If you put all the evidence for melee in one column, and all the evidence against melee in another, it’s rather obvious if the bard is a melee or not. Luckily facts never seem to slow down a good piss and moan on EQ forums.

[Cecily]

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[Raj]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

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Haha this is true my friend