DPS: Monk vs. Warrior vs. Rogue vs. Ranger

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Alarria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I didn't ask you to do anything, other than not respond or quote me, both of which you did regardless. I don't care who "targets me" on a game forum I've posted on 100 times in 13 years. Why would anyone care what an anonymous person says about you on a emulated game forum? I'm saying that sometimes, it's fun to read about a game without having to see huge quoted posts full of stuff irrelevant to the original topic. You, and they, are the cause. However, if you did have the grace to stop, the "trolls" would have no ammo.

Regardless, please don't reply. I'm just stating something.

I honestly don't care about the insults. Posters like Troxx have provided factually false information after being proven wrong, and have asserted it to be true to troll other posters. Toxigen and other trolls reinforce this information, giving the illusion of consensus. That's a real problem if you enjoy having discussions about game mechanics in an honest and open way.

When you have a bunch of trolls bullying people into submission, discussion shuts down. Nobody bothers posting, as they will just be attacked by the mob.

If you really care about seeing interesting game mechanic discussions happen organically in an honest and open way, you cannot allow this kind of behavior. All I can do is point out this behavior, and hope that other people step up to keep these forums alive.

I appreciate Snaggles doing just that. Thank you! Jimjam and Kirdan were also great in this thread.

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This week DSM finally learns what a flurry mob is, busting all napkin math based off the wiki.

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[Alarria]

You continue to reply to my posts despite me asking you not to, lol. Whatever. However, you are the target of the trolls. I have never been attacked, and VERY rarely in 13 years of lurking and reading have I seen others attacked in normal gameplay conversations. Honestly, these forums have seen less of good discussion with these "DSM" threads. Good honest questions, good answers mostly, then you post, and it's usually fine. However, once you are disagreed with, you begin trying to refute anything that is contrary to what you're saying. Which makes people want to laugh, point and troll. Then the thread devolves into exactly this.

This is just an opinion. You DO NOT have to respond to it, quoting me and then continuing to be the white knight of saving these forums. If you truly care, let it go. Let this rest. Here, I'll help move on:

For DPS, what is a greater contributing factor, given similar gear levels? Better worn haste, or better damage/delay on weapons? I have never played anything but casters, and don't understand the math really. Like 36% haste vs 41%, or 5 more base damage or 5 less delay. I do want to learn. I am leveling a monk whos 53 with a T-staff, and its faster and has a great proc, but with the same haste (CocW) why is it more dps than a 38/40? I know that 0.966 is > than 0.95, but it seems that max hits would be more. Is there a calculating best dps for dummies? =)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Alarria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You continue to reply to my posts despite me asking you not to, lol. Whatever. However, you are the target of the trolls. I have never been attacked, and VERY rarely in 13 years of lurking and reading have I seen others attacked in normal gameplay conversations. Honestly, these forums have seen less of good discussion with these "DSM" threads. Good honest questions, good answers mostly, then you post, and it's usually fine. However, once you are disagreed with, you begin trying to refute anything that is contrary to what you're saying. Which makes people want to laugh, point and troll. Then the thread devolves into exactly this.

This is just an opinion. You DO NOT have to respond to it, quoting me and then continuing to be the white knight of saving these forums. If you truly care, let it go.

I appreciate your opinion. I am giving you mine. Letting the trolls run rampant is the problem, whether you agree with that or not.

If you want to solve the problem, talk to the trolls. If you don't, then you will unfortunately see this issue continue. They will not stop if I leave, they will simply find a new target. That is how they operate.

Originally Posted by Alarria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For DPS, what is a greater contributing factor, given similar gear levels? Better worn haste, or better damage/delay on weapons? I have never played anything but casters, and don't understand the math really. Like 36% haste vs 41%, or 5 more base damage or 5 less delay. I do want to learn. I am leveling a monk whos 53 with a T-staff, and its faster and has a great proc, but with the same haste (CocW) why is it more dps than a 38/40? I know that 0.966 is > than 0.95, but it seems that max hits would be more. Is there a calculating best dps for dummies? =)

An easy starting point is weapon ratios.

Lets look at a cracked staff. 5 damage, 32 delay.

You divide 5/32 to get the ratio of 0.156

Haste reduces the delay of the weapon. An FBSS has 21% worn haste. If you divide 32 by 1.21, you get a new delay of 26.44.

Your cracked staff's ratio is now 5/26.44 = 0.189.

You can do these calculatuons with whatever weapon. Bigger ratio is generally better.

[Troxx]

Must … always … post … last ……

[bcbrown]

Originally Posted by Alarria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am leveling a monk whos 53 with a T-staff, and its faster and has a great proc, but with the same haste (CocW) why is it more dps than a 38/40? I know that 0.966 is > than 0.95, but it seems that max hits would be more. Is there a calculating best dps for dummies? =)

When thinking about melee damage you need to incorporate the additional bonus damage added when at high levels. I also mostly play casters, so I'm far from an expert on this stuff, but https://wiki.project1999.com/Game_Me...bat_and_Damage is helpful.

Here's how I think of it. First, adjust the delay for haste: new delay = old delay / (1 + haste percentage). Second, weapons can generally hit for twice the stated value, so double the damage. Then, add a level-based damage modifier for main hand; wiki suggests it would be 8 or 9 for your level. That's the actual ratio you should be optimizing for.

So, if you have 36% haste and are comparing a 29/30 and a 38/40, the haste makes them 29/22 and 38/28. Doubling the damage and adding 9 gets you 38/22 and 47/28. So the final ratios are 1.72 and 1.68.

This calculation is just for example's sake, as I don't know the actual damage bonus values, and I believe they can be different for 1h and 2h weapons.

I think the other two important considerations is that the damage bonus only applies to main-hand weapon, and that off-hand weapon procs are half the rate of main-hand procs.

[Croco]

Originally Posted by Alarria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You continue to reply to my posts despite me asking you not to, lol. Whatever. However, you are the target of the trolls. I have never been attacked, and VERY rarely in 13 years of lurking and reading have I seen others attacked in normal gameplay conversations. Honestly, these forums have seen less of good discussion with these "DSM" threads. Good honest questions, good answers mostly, then you post, and it's usually fine. However, once you are disagreed with, you begin trying to refute anything that is contrary to what you're saying. Which makes people want to laugh, point and troll. Then the thread devolves into exactly this.

This is just an opinion. You DO NOT have to respond to it, quoting me and then continuing to be the white knight of saving these forums. If you truly care, let it go. Let this rest...

Don't be too hard on him he can't help himself. He desperately needs to get the last word. If his posts about game mechanics and math were so good and correct a normal person wouldn't feel the need to keep defending and reiterating over and over and over. He would just let his work stand for itself and trust that discerning readers would realize the correctness of his posts, but he can't do that. Whether it's compulsion from any number of underlying causes or because he knows deep down he's just spouting garbage but is unwilling or unable to let things rest I don't think we'll ever know.

Don't worry DSM I knew you wouldn't drop things and stop posting. You can't help yourself. I'd say it's all good but it really isn't. You're a very large net negative on these forums.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't be too hard on him he can't help himself. He desperately needs to get the last word. If his posts about game mechanics and math were so good and correct a normal person wouldn't feel the need to keep defending and reiterating over and over and over. He would just let his work stand for itself and trust that discerning readers would realize the correctness of his posts, but he can't do that. Whether it's compulsion from any number of underlying causes or because he knows deep down he's just spouting garbage but is unwilling or unable to let things rest I don't think we'll ever know.

Don't worry DSM I knew you wouldn't drop things and stop posting. You can't help yourself. I'd say it's all good but it really isn't. You're a very large net negative on these forums.

Croco's delusions continue to haunt him. He doesn't understand every single post he has made in this thread is off topic, and completely worthless.

Somehow he thinks bloating threads with posts that are just random words makes him look good, and me look bad.

If you care about the health of the forum, stop acting like a crazy person who will relentlessly attack all posters who disagree with yoi. It's a bad look.

[Croco]

Oh see that's where we differ. I know my posts are worthless. You can't seem to ever see it.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know my posts are worthless.

You have your answer then. Stop bloating threads with posts you know are worthless.

If you don't attack me with a worthless post, I don't post in response. The solution is obvious, and it's within your control!

For every worthless post you don't make, you will have saved the thread two posts.

If you think I am wrong about something, make a post using logic and evidence. As you keep saying, the readers can make up their own minds. You may find that your posts will become worthwhile! Everybody can be given a second chance. I do not block you because I have seen you post normally in the past. You are just in a bad slump right now for some reason.