SK Race question + item help (have never played a tank)

[Jimjam]

What I found interesting was how little difference there was between the dark elf and ogre for agi/dex - where did you put the ogres starting stats?

The Dark Elf did a good job making up the stamina deficit - there is only 168 health difference and this is closed further if there are shaman buffs around. The difference is also made up a bit when in sword and board mode - (the ogre would be assumed to be about 50 hp down on that slot due to using clay guardian or atramentous). The extra mana reservoir on the dark elf is very impressive, though honestly I'm not sure how useful it would be (again my sk is a 52 troll - he doesn't really struggle that much with running out of mana, but perhaps I've just adapted to his mana pool).

The dark elf strength is appalling and will be a handicap if trying to solo, where the character's dps is quite important.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I found interesting was how little difference there was between the dark elf and ogre for agi/dex - where did you put the ogres starting stats?

Typically you would put 5 into agi (to remove the AC penalty for being under 75 agi), and then the rest into INT. Ogres can easily max STR/STA, so it's not terribly useful to put points there.

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The extra mana reservoir on the dark elf is very impressive, though honestly I'm not sure how useful it would be (again my sk is a 52 troll - he doesn't really struggle that much with running out of mana, but perhaps I've just adapted to his mana pool).

To your point about max mana: It is nice to have in certain situations, but most of your mana recovery is going to end up coming from Flowing Thought, Clickies, and Soul Defiler. That is why you don't see a huge difference on your Troll and Dark Elf mana pools. Max mana is more situational to dumping all your mana in a short period of time. When you are soloing/grouping while leveling up you typically don't do that, as it isn't efficient. It's more for "oh shit" situations, or maybe solo challenges.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It's more for "oh shit" situations, or maybe solo challenges.

I know mana regen is the same regardless of pool. I'm saying there are rarely situations (the oh shit ones) where I have to spike mana so much my troll runs out of mana (i.e. doesn't often need a bigger pool).

Honestly, the most common time to run out of mana is when thirsty

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know mana regen is the same regardless of pool. I'm saying there are rarely situations (the oh shit ones) where I have to spike mana so much my troll runs out of mana (i.e. doesn't often need a bigger pool).

Honestly, the most common time to run out of mana is when thirsty

Agreed. That has been my experience as well. I don't have too many memories where I am dumping my mana pool. Again, maybe it's a bit more common for people who do solo challenge stuff like Cliff Golems.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Typically you would put 5 into agi (to remove the AC penalty for being under 75 agi), and then the rest into INT. Ogres can easily max STR/STA, so it's not terribly useful to put points there.



To your point about max mana: It is nice to have in certain situations, but most of your mana recovery is going to end up coming from Flowing Thought, Clickies, and Soul Defiler. That is why you don't see a huge difference on your Troll and Dark Elf mana pools. Max mana is more situational to dumping all your mana in a short period of time. When you are soloing/grouping while leveling up you typically don't do that, as it isn't efficient. It's more for "oh shit" situations, or maybe solo challenges.

You can’t discredit max mana when paired with mana regen in a sustained xp situation. For instance I could usually go an hour with my troll before needing a break. If I had more int, I could have gone potentially 15-20 min longer before needing to med. int returns are pretty huge 50+ and relying on regen is a pretty inefficient way to recover health as an sk. I’m planning to do an erudite int build next and be able to see if/how much longer I could go before needing a break.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can’t discredit max mana when paired with mana regen in a sustained xp situation. For instance I could usually go an hour with my troll before needing a break. If I had more int, I could have gone potentially 15-20 min longer before needing to med. int returns are pretty huge 50+ and relying on regen is a pretty inefficient way to recover health as an sk. I’m planning to do an erudite int build next and be able to see if/how much longer I could go before needing a break.

I've never really needed my max mana when soloing. I fluctuate between like 1.7k and 2k max mana, depending on what's equipped, and I don't notice the difference. FT2 + FT1 + Clickies has been more than enough to keep my mana at safe levels. Not saying I never had "oh shit" moments, but they were rare.

HP isn't a huge issue when you are fear kiting, and with a Fungi or Velious Healing Chestplate you aren't low on HP that long.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I've never really needed my max mana when soloing. I fluctuate between like 1.7k and 2k max mana, depending on what's equipped, and I don't notice the difference. FT2 + FT1 + Clickies has been more than enough to keep my mana at safe levels. Not saying I never had "oh shit" moments, but they were rare.

HP isn't a huge issue when you are fear kiting, and with a Fungi or Velious Healing Chestplate you aren't low on HP that long.

HP does let you take hits to give your mana a break, but generally I agree it's not that big of a deal especially if you have some base regen like a fungi. Epic is the best thing you can do for HP. Max mana & mana regen are not mutually exclusive, you should be striving for both. My troll who went STA had about 300ish more HP than An erudite who went INT, but that erudite would have had like 700 more mana which is like 3 drain souls or another 1k hp. 700 more mana paired really good mana regen would also allow you to fear kite significantly longer too.

TLDR - SKs should be prioritizing both INT & mana regen IMO.

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What I found interesting was how little difference there was between the dark elf and ogre for agi/dex - where did you put the ogres starting stats?

The Dark Elf did a good job making up the stamina deficit - there is only 168 health difference and this is closed further if there are shaman buffs around. The difference is also made up a bit when in sword and board mode - (the ogre would be assumed to be about 50 hp down on that slot due to using clay guardian or atramentous). The extra mana reservoir on the dark elf is very impressive, though honestly I'm not sure how useful it would be (again my sk is a 52 troll - he doesn't really struggle that much with running out of mana, but perhaps I've just adapted to his mana pool).

The dark elf strength is appalling and will be a handicap if trying to solo, where the character's dps is quite important.

For both examples I just added 20 stamina; it’s not ideal for an end game ogre but just trying to keep the comparison accurate. The final hps and mana on the magelo might be a bit off. The stats though should be accurate per the gear. Normally 50 Stam difference at 60 on a knight is 260hps (5.2hp/sta). In this case though the ogre overcaps and the DE under caps since 205 is the magic number.

Mixing in a bit of high end raid gear it’s not impossible to cap stamina even on an elf. My eru paladin started with 20 str (lol…long ago) so 70 stamina. The unbuffed Str though is tough to increase since a lot mid-tier tank gear doesn’t have any and SK’s closest equivalent to Yaulp4 (40 str) is Siphon Strength and maybe a Dark Reaver proc. I would bring up the Greenmist strength steal proc but JFC let’s just not [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Jimjam]

After an hour you should probably be taking a breather anyway imo. Troll proven better for mental health / well being!

Microbreak every 15 mins and minibreak after 45 mins- hour.

[greatdane]

Maximum mana almost never means anything. Aside from raiding clerics and quad-kiting wizards/druids, there's almost never a situation where a few hundred extra to the depth of your mana pool would have made any difference. Either you're not outspending your regeneration, in which case it doesn't matter; or you are outspending your regeneration, in which case you never sit at full mana anyway and the ultimate maximum is irrelevant. As a hybrid, there will practically never be a situation where you go from full mana to OOM in one single fight and would have benefitted so much from even more mana that you'd have traded, say, HP or resists for it. The game just doesn't generally work that way. The size of one's mana pool only matters when you need a full mana bar for a single encounter and are fucked if you run out before it's over. That's basically just clerics in a CH chain, and quad-kiters.