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[Albanwr]

if they are banning (which I doubt) over keyboard macros, then they need to start banning for GINA triggers and timers. Those provide more use for many different things than a simple keyboard macro.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by Albanwr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if they are banning (which I doubt) over keyboard macros, then they need to start banning for GINA triggers and timers. Those provide more use for many different things than a simple keyboard macro.

GINA and other log reading programs are explicitly allowed under the rules...

Programmable macro programs are explicitly forbidden under the rules...

IMO, they ought to fall under the same category...but the staff for a variety of reasons have decided to treat them differently.

[Albanwr]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

GINA and other log reading programs are explicitly allowed under the rules...

Programmable macro programs are explicitly forbidden under the rules...

IMO, they ought to fall under the same category...but the staff for a variety of reasons have decided to treat them differently.

Exactly. Which is really silly.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Albanwr [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

if they are banning (which I doubt) over keyboard macros, then they need to start banning for GINA triggers and timers. Those provide more use for many different things than a simple keyboard macro.

One thing is 100% external from the game, except that it reads a log file which is generated by the game (although technically once it generates it, that file is external to EQ itself; it's not like the program keeps a read lock on it or something, even though it could).

The other thing is messing with the game itself ... ie. cheating.

The two are separate because while you can lump together whatever you want, there's a natural dividing line between stuff that changes the game and stuff that just reads log files.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

One thing is 100% external from the game, except that it reads a log file which is generated by the game (although technically once it generates it, that file is external to EQ itself; it's not like the program keeps a read lock on it or something, even though it could).

The other thing is messing with the game itself ... ie. cheating.

The two are separate because while you can lump together whatever you want, there's a natural dividing line between stuff that changes the game and stuff that just reads log files.

You're doing the exact same thing though. There is no "natural" boundary between these two, it is a boundary that makes sense to you so you see it as natural. You can lump together what you want, but that doesn't mean its the only relevant way of thinking about it.

I could just as easily assert that they are in the same category because they are "3rd party programs that give you an in-game advantage, benefit, or change in game play" and (to great wonder) they are now in the same category instead of "naturally" seperated.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I could just as easily assert that they are in the same category because they are "3rd party programs that give you an in-game advantage, benefit, or change in game play" and (to great wonder) they are now in the same category instead of "naturally" seperated.

You could just as easily .. but you don't have to enforce these rules.

The people that do have to enforce them set them the way they do for reasons that make sense to them (like say that one category of things can be programmatically detected, and one can't). It doesn't have to be something we players understand and/or agree with.

[fastboy21]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You could just as easily .. but you don't have to enforce these rules.

The people that do have to enforce them set them the way they do for reasons that make sense to them (like say that one category of things can be programmatically detected, and one can't). It doesn't have to be something we players understand and/or agree with.

Not sure what that point is meant to mean. Obviously, I don't enforce the rules. This forum is 99.99% a dialogue between players who don't enforce the rules. Not sure how this point is relevant or new information.

I've already said that I understand the staff has the real problem of deploying limited resources to solve problems and enforce rules in a way they determine has the most utility for the server.

If the staff has prioritized the enforcement of 3rd party programs that macro commands in the game lowly then I presume its for good reasons. That doesn't mean that in an ideal p99 that things might be not be different.

You're starting to sound a bit like a server spokesman, Loramin. The staff has a history of listening to players on logical and factual feedback and using it to improve p99. It isn't helpful to just surround yourself with folks that thump the party line all of the time if you want to find areas of improvement in any organization.

[Fammaden]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're doing the exact same thing though. There is no "natural" boundary between these two, it is a boundary that makes sense to you so you see it as natural. You can lump together what you want, but that doesn't mean its the only relevant way of thinking about it.

I could just as easily assert that they are in the same category because they are "3rd party programs that give you an in-game advantage, benefit, or change in game play" and (to great wonder) they are now in the same category instead of "naturally" seperated.

I seem to recall during era it was the same sort of rules. Stuff that interacts with the client and performs an action for you as in it "clicks" a button in some more automated way than a player manually triggering it in-game, were banned. Things that only read the log file were not, like a dps parser or our little GINA problem. So its pretty standard EQ to approach it this way.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not sure what that point is meant to mean. Obviously, I don't enforce the rules. This forum is 99.99% a dialogue between players who don't enforce the rules. Not sure how this point is relevant or new information.

You were saying "I don't care about X". I responded with "well maybe if you had to consider what the devs have to consider, you would care about X". Clear?

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're starting to sound a bit like a server spokesman, Loramin.

There is a lot of ignorance in this forum. I've been here for about half a decade, and you have too, so we're both well aware of this.

I hate ignorance. I'm a university instructor for my day job: literally I get paid to fight ignorance. It's also why I'm "Mr. Wiki": the wiki is a tool to fight ignorance.

If giving basic information to people in the forums ... which answers the question they were asking ... makes me "sound a bit like a server spokesman" ... I really don't give a rat's ass. It in no way prevents a dialog between the players and the staff about any issue, and if the staff has a problem with anything I do I have confidence they'll say something. In the mean time I'll keep trying to dispel ignorance on the forum, on the wiki, and in game.

But as an aside ... c'mon man. You've been here how long, and you really don't see a difference between cheating with a programmable keyboard and using a log reader? One let's you do something other players can't do, the other doesn't (even without Gina you can make timers for your buffs on your phone or whatever). It seems like you're trying to be dense.

I mean Fanmaden has only been here since last year, and he gets it:

Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I seem to recall during era it was the same sort of rules. Stuff that interacts with the client and performs an action for you as in it "clicks" a button in some more automated way than a player manually triggering it in-game, were banned. Things that only read the log file were not, like a dps parser or our little GINA problem. So its pretty standard EQ to approach it this way.

[ashby_jonny]

anyone know how to fix the p99file50 spell_us.txt bug.
still cant figure out how to get this working any help will be appreciated